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General Erection - 12th December 2019


mr.hobblesworth

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5 hours ago, geosname said:

It's slightly amusing that the British people fall for the cack spouted by all political parties when elections are called.

Money magically appears from empty coffers to buy votes and make promises to the electorate that will never materialise, homes to accommodate the homeless but not in your village or community, more in benefits, more on roads we can't afford to fill the potholes in, more doctors and nurses we can't find, more police to enforce laws we don't need and the new laws generated to protect "special" groups and a few laws that don't exist....... on and on and on and on.

A question to the big two....... if the money is there to deliver all the promises why didn't you spend it when you were in office?..... please don't blame the previous administrations failures for your inability to deliver.... and don't pretend your financial inability will raise the money needed because you know it won't..... the only way to finance the promises you make is to borrow more, a lot more, probably more than we can afford to repay.

 

Correct, when was the last time a manifesto was followed through?

last election Corbyn promised the world by growing money on tress and it won him a lot of votes. On the other hand May was was doom and gloom and promising more austerity. This time Boris is being clever and playing Corbyn at his own game, whoever wins the election will not follow through with their promises.

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23 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

Correct, when was the last time a manifesto was followed through?

last election Corbyn promised the world by growing money on tress and it won him a lot of votes. On the other hand May was was doom and gloom and promising more austerity. This time Boris is being clever and playing Corbyn at his own game, whoever wins the election will not follow through with their promises.

Yes,promise a three-day working week,free mobiles and the jobs a good 'un.

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15 hours ago, Heatwave said:

He's not 'my beloved Jeremy' as I think Labour would have a much better chance at winning if, say John McDonnell was in the hot seat. But if you criticise Corbyn for talking to terrorists you have to criticise every Prime Minister of at least the last 50 years, including Thatcher. 

You're not getting it are you?  Corbyn doesn't just "talk" with terrorists, he positively backs and supports them as is evidenced many, many times over the years--as too, does McDonnell, so for me, in the context of security neither of them is fit to be PM. The one thing we can agree on is that McDonnell is clearly much brighter than Corbyn and for that reason IMO, far more dangerous for the country!

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Plus the fact that Dianne Abbott would be Home Secretary then we definitely do have a national security problem should Labour get in to power. 

Corbyn wants to scrap Trident, he thinks The Falklands should go to the Argentinians plus he has to raise money for all his promises so you can pretty well guarantee the budget will be reduced for our armed forces.

could be our last general election ever if he gets his way.

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We are not the 6th highest spenders on health! Stop peddling fake news.

Spending has gone up but since 2010 as a percentage of our GDP it has not increased. This explains why the NHS is in crisis. It has not been funded as well as it needs to be. Self evidently anyone who has visited a hospital or tried to get an appointment will tell you that. In fact the latest OECD figures listing healthcare spending per capita have us as 16th out of the top 18 countries, lower than France and Germany. Capital spending is also around half the EU average. 

Wake up and smell the coffee. The NHS is not safe in Tory hands. Because they don't want to put up taxes and fund it properly they'd rather privatise it and sell it to Trump. Job done.

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19 minutes ago, TheSage said:

We are not the 6th highest spenders on health! Stop peddling fake news.

Spending has gone up but since 2010 as a percentage of our GDP it has not increased. This explains why the NHS is in crisis. It has not been funded as well as it needs to be. Self evidently anyone who has visited a hospital or tried to get an appointment will tell you that. In fact the latest OECD figures listing healthcare spending per capita have us as 16th out of the top 18 countries, lower than France and Germany. Capital spending is also around half the EU average. 

Wake up and smell the coffee. The NHS is not safe in Tory hands. Because they don't want to put up taxes and fund it properly they'd rather privatise it and sell it to Trump. Job done.

"stop peddling fake news"

"the tories want to sell the NHS to Trump"

 

Shameless.

 

 

I'm also not sure how exponentially increasing the percentage of GDP that goes to the NHS is a good idea.

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12 hours ago, philpvfc said:

Chuck more money at a failing product?. We already pay the 6th highest GDP in to health in the world. It needs a total change not just more money thrown at it and don’t get me started on Social Services.

Are you against the principle of a National Health Service or just its current manifestation?

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Maybe we should have the same kind of system as the US where the government spends more taxes on health than we do, and then the people have to spend even more on health insurance (twice as much in total). Which then leaves the poor and vulnerable also without adequate health care. 

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5 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

Maybe we should have the same kind of system as the US where the government spends more taxes on health than we do, and then the people have to spend even more on health insurance (twice as much in total). Which then leaves the poor and vulnerable also without adequate health care. 

Apparently the current system isn't adequate either..... if it was it wouldn't be in crisis every year.

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7 minutes ago, geosname said:

Apparently the current system isn't adequate either..... if it was it wouldn't be in crisis every year.

Not saying it can’t be better. I’d happily pay more taxes for it. However at least I know that if I lose my job and hit rock bottom, I’ll still be looked jut the same after if I fall ill. And it will cost less to do.

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34 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Are you against the principle of a National Health Service or just its current manifestation?

It’s current format isn’t working, it needs a massive overhaul but it would be a brave decision from any party as the NHS has so much support. 

The UK has the 6th highest GDP to health with the number 1 being America which does go to prove the more you spend on health does not necessarily mean you get a better service. 

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Clearly throwing money at the problem is only part of the solution. We all know that in general people live longer and that medical advances are continuing apace. So we need to ensure that it is as well organised as possible, staffing levels are the best they can be and adequate resources are put into it to so that when we need it it's there for all of us.

But what you will find it you bother to examine the facts is that although raw spending has increased on the NHS since 2009 it has gone down as a % of our GDP spending and that's why things have got worse. That's why all 4 crucial targets have been missed. I don't need to give chapter and verse of what the facts are as everyone can see with their own eyes what's going on. We're not even in the top 8 in the EU, let alone in the rest of the world. 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Total_general_government_expenditure_on_health,_2017_(%_of_GDP).png

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020915/what-country-spends-most-healthcare.asp

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/health-spending-as-a-share-of-g

Because it's been underfunded for ten years any belated increases are only now sticking plaster on the wounds as in the meantime the population has increased and the demands got even greater. So all the government is offering to do is to return spending to what it was ten years ago but not admitting that the demand now is far greater.

If taxes need to go up, so be it. But one of the problems I have with health is, as with education, is the fact that wealthy people can buy private services and bypass the problems. You can bet your bottom dollar that if every person in Parliament had to use state schools and the NHS they would both be better funded than there are now.

 

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22 minutes ago, geosname said:

Apparently the current system isn't adequate either..... if it was it wouldn't be in crisis every year.

The crisis is the reasons why, inadequate staff planning, recruitment, and training.  Management, excessive bureauracy,  lack of   local involvement and bulk procurement, ineffective competitive tendering,  Work loads and pay no doubt are factors too. Lack of funds does not help, nor does continuous re-orgs. The most important topic in the country, it is a matter of life and death, something like 20% can afford private medicine to improve access, but when it comes to the real stuff it is the NHS that deals with it.

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58 minutes ago, TheSage said:

Clearly throwing money at the problem is only part of the solution. We all know that in general people live longer and that medical advances are continuing apace. So we need to ensure that it is as well organised as possible, staffing levels are the best they can be and adequate resources are put into it to so that when we need it it's there for all of us.

But what you will find it you bother to examine the facts is that although raw spending has increased on the NHS since 2009 it has gone down as a % of our GDP spending and that's why things have got worse. That's why all 4 crucial targets have been missed. I don't need to give chapter and verse of what the facts are as everyone can see with their own eyes what's going on. We're not even in the top 8 in the EU, let alone in the rest of the world. 

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Total_general_government_expenditure_on_health,_2017_(%_of_GDP).png

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268826/health-expenditure-as-gdp-percentage-in-oecd-countries/

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020915/what-country-spends-most-healthcare.asp

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/health-spending-as-a-share-of-g

Because it's been underfunded for ten years any belated increases are only now sticking plaster on the wounds as in the meantime the population has increased and the demands got even greater. So all the government is offering to do is to return spending to what it was ten years ago but not admitting that the demand now is far greater.

If taxes need to go up, so be it. But one of the problems I have with health is, as with education, is the fact that wealthy people can buy private services and bypass the problems. You can bet your bottom dollar that if every person in Parliament had to use state schools and the NHS they would both be better funded than there are now.

 

What do the facts say regarding mass immigration Sage?

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