General Erection - 12th December 2019

[Bycarsbill]

Just now, mr.hobblesworth said:

Of course I quote selectively, I'm taking a side and making points. If you just want to see a list of recent events, go and read the Independent. 

I'm not challenging your right to "take a side" we all do. 

[mr.hobblesworth]

I like Bill, he's one of the few tories on here who actually think about what they write rather than the likes of FUA and Howjy who just regurgitate Mail headlines.

[Bycarsbill]

54 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

I remember the 70s. They weren’t nice. Mortgage interest rates at 15%. Inflation reaching 26% due in part to oil prices but also to crazy wage inflation. Regular strikes culminating in the 1979 winter of discontent. I admit to voting for Thatcher then I was so fed up with it all. 

I agree. Those are the very things that opened my eyes to the shortcomings of Labour's management. Many younger people only have a one-sided view of what they've heard about Thatcher. In 1972 this country was the poor man of Europe--ironically one of the main reasons that the French did not want us to join The Common Market! Whether you like her or hate her, Thatcher's greatest legacy was to end the crippling statistics of millions of lost days of strikes and to stop the trades unions from crippling the economy as they were doing in those days.

[Bycarsbill]

7 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

I like Bill, he's one of the few tories on here who actually think about what they write rather than the likes of FUA and Howjy who just regurgitate Mail headlines.

I think that was almost a compliment! Thank you kind sir.

[Heatwave]

27 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

Labour didn't cause the global financial crisis--and I've never said that.   But the two things, although separate issues are inter-connected.  I grant you that Gordon Brown, in terms of the world situation did rise to the plate and helped in the wider global sense. However and unfortunately because of all Labour's unbridled spending and largesse, particularly in terms of welfare and the public sector (salaries, pensions etc), Gt. Britain as a country was in a much worse position and financial state to withstand the global economic Tsunami.  Whichever economic studies you look at, Britain at the end of the Labour years in 2010 was bust and it took some sensible management to get the economy back onto an even keel. As I've said before, my fear is that the Conservatives are now going to throw off the sensible mantle and try and match Labour's spend-thrift promises!

There's none so blind as them that won't see.

If the end result of financial austerity is rough sleepers and food banks then I'm not voting for it. Despite the Tories' new found fiscal largesse Savid Javid said the other day that 'austerity will still be required'. That's all I need to know.

[cheshirevaliant]

59 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

I have friends in Alty & Sale West who have volunteered for the Lib Dems in the past who won't have anything to do with them this election since they have parachuted a candidate in from outside the area. Say what you like about Brady or Western (I disagree with much of what they stand for) but at least they are local people and will stand up for local issues. 

[Howjy04]

40 years Anniversary for the Winter of Discontent.Rail strikes,Queues for limited amount of petrol,Power cuts,Working in candlelight with an overcoat on etc.This week we have had talk about Royal Mail workers and Railway workers having December off.Unions run the Labour Party.Those who think otherwise should give their heads a wobble.Strikes and Economic irresponsibility are Labour Party trademarks.The crash was not all Labour’s fault but their fault was they had put us in a position that was damn difficult to recover from due to their reckless spending.Those who missed the seventies under Labour ,missed a treat.Since that time,if Labour were the only party to vote for I’d stop at home on GE day.

[mr.hobblesworth]

35 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

Since that time,if Labour were the only party to vote for I’d stop at home on GE day.

That'd teach 'em! 🤣

[Andyregs]

1 hour ago, Bycarsbill said:

I agree. Those are the very things that opened my eyes to the shortcomings of Labour's management. Many younger people only have a one-sided view of what they've heard about Thatcher. 

I think it’s also fair to say that young people find it a bit much to have an older generation tell them your don’t understand’ while they are crippled with student debt that their parents didn’t have, will have to work longer for a probably smaller cut of what they pay in, find it much harder to get a house and are the first generation to be worse off than their parents. To be told ‘sorry, we’ve spent it’ and then have it explained that they just ‘don’t understand’. 

41 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

Unions run the Labour Party.Those who think otherwise should give their heads a wobble. 

They are called the Labour Party for Christ’s sake. 

[Howjy04]

We’ll need his help if they get in.McCluskey sorry Corbyn for PM.😩

[Bycarsbill]

1 hour ago, Heatwave said:

There's none so blind as them that won't see.

If the end result of financial austerity is rough sleepers and food banks then I'm not voting for it. Despite the Tories' new found fiscal largesse Savid Javid said the other day that 'austerity will still be required'. That's all I need to know.

Substitute "austerity" for "being sensible" and there you have it. Labour trashing the economy as they will, does nothing to improve the plight of rough sleepers or anyone in real need. In fact, it will do the exact opposite and increase the numbers of both those categories of people. My eyes are totally open and can see perfectly well! Don't be "blinded" by Labour's economic con and spin.

[For Us All]

1 hour ago, Howjy04 said:

40 years Anniversary for the Winter of Discontent.Rail strikes,Queues for limited amount of petrol,Power cuts,Working in candlelight with an overcoat on etc.This week we have had talk about Royal Mail workers and Railway workers having December off.Unions run the Labour Party.Those who think otherwise should give their heads a wobble.Strikes and Economic irresponsibility are Labour Party trademarks.The crash was not all Labour’s fault but their fault was they had put us in a position that was damn difficult to recover from due to their reckless spending.Those who missed the seventies under Labour ,missed a treat.Since that time,if Labour were the only party to vote for I’d stop at home on GE day.

Yes,these millenials don't know what they've missed.The Tories are now going into a tenth year of government which says a lot about the opposition, who rarely serve more than one term.Apart from Blair and Brown how many Labour goverments have reached double figures since Clement Attlee?

[cheshirevaliant]

Wilson?

Edit, just checked. Wilson/Callaghan combined had 11 years in the late 60s/70s. Ted Heath had 4 years in the early 70s.  

[TheSage]

I guess Tory myths and propaganda in the press are so deep rooted that it's a lost cause on many. But so was Brexit. If you keep peddling misinformation and lies the mud sticks.

The 2008 recession had nowt to do with Labour. It was caused by a banking and housing crisis abroad that spread like wildfire. But of course it's Tory policy to blame it all on Labour because it suits their austerity argument which, of course, has no sound economic basis whatsoever and has resulted in the state of the country today. It doesn't fit the right wing narrative but the Tories matched Labour's spending pledges in the 2005 election and they wanted less regulation on the banks and even more credit. But let's forget the facts shall we? It is true to say, with hindsight, Labour should have been more prudent but it's easy to be wise after the event. At the time no one was questioning what was going on. Don't re-write history.

I'm not saying that Labour are blameless. Nor am I claiming that they've always done the right thing. I too remember the 50s and onwards. But unlike many on here I also recall Heath and the 3 day week, the failure of monetarism and the poll tax, Black Wednesday (1992) when interest rates went up x3 in a day and over 1 million people were in negative equity. So we don't need any lectures on how fantastic the Tories are with the economy. It's a myth. All governments run into problems at different times and for different reasons but it's amazing how many of you have selective memories.

Austerity wasn't a necessity but a deliberate act on the part of the government to make poorer people pay for the banking crisis. It was sold as a given because of the wicked Labour government that had caused the mess in the first place. But it was a mistake. The cuts were too deep, too fast and we've ended up with ten years of misery. Darling's more gradual plan to bring down the deficit was beginning to bear fruit but once he went the Tories slashed and burned the economy on the false premise that it was necessary when it wasn't. 

You will scarcely find any credible economist who thinks it was the right thing to do. You don't strangle the economy in a depression. It makes things worse. As a result, we've struggled for ten years. Look around you at the roads and the NHS, the schools and the transport network, the homeless and the foods banks, and the wealthier people in society who have had tax cuts. What an appalling state the country is in. And it has nothing to do with what occurred back in 2008 but deliberate Tory policy.

That's why both parties have told voters that we badly need to invest to get the economy going again. There is nothing wrong with investing for the future. It's the right thing to do. We all do it with mortgages. And yes the deficit has come down. But the debt had risen inexorably to well over £2 trillion and is skyrocketing. 

The same thing happened with the Brexit vote. Voters swallowed a pack of lies - as they have done over the economy - and the right wing press, anxious not to see a Labour government elected, have gleefully gone along with it all in an unquestioned manner.  Austerity isn't the fault of the EU. It isn't the fault of the 2005 government. It's the fault of the Nasty Party. But don't let facts get in the way of a good fairly tale.

[mr.hobblesworth]

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/