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General Erection - 12th December 2019


mr.hobblesworth

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1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

Johnson was Mayor 2008 - 2016, the cladding was installed 2015-16, the cutting back of council building  services and the fire service happened on his watch. Not relevant to this election, it will all come out during the next couple of years in the delayed enquiry. The relevance to this election is the 9 years of austerity resulting in the reduction of services,

I'm having a problem with the austerity claim 're the cladding..... from what I've read on here it was fitted as a beautification project, a decision by the local authority?, if so I don't see how the lack of funds applies..... surely if finance was an issue projects like this would be put on hold..... if it's not done for safety reasons just aesthetic reasons it should get scrapped first if there is no money.

It seems to me the whole structure of the country has been playing catch up for decades..... nothing changes until after a major incident when lessons are learned and new polices are implemented..... until the next screw up.... and the next.... and the next.... and there is always some external influence to blame.... finances, cuts, staff shortages, communications etc etc. 

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2 hours ago, For Us All said:

It can also be argued that those nine years were as a result of thirteen years of Labour overspending.

You can spin it how you want but the safest way is to live within your means?

Not spin, reality. Living within your means does not mean increasing the National debt, by 1 trillion pounds in those 9 years.

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21 minutes ago, geosname said:

I'm having a problem with the austerity claim 're the cladding..... from what I've read on here it was fitted as a beautification project, a decision by the local authority?, if so I don't see how the lack of funds applies..... surely if finance was an issue projects like this would be put on hold..... if it's not done for safety reasons just aesthetic reasons it should get scrapped first if there is no money.

It seems to me the whole structure of the country has been playing catch up for decades..... nothing changes until after a major incident when lessons are learned and new polices are implemented..... until the next screw up.... and the next.... and the next.... and there is always some external influence to blame.... finances, cuts, staff shortages, communications etc etc. 

There is a criminal case going on, possible manslaughter charges. The culprit/causes were readily identified. £10M was the cost of modernising a 70s high rise tower, a routine event,  Part of the project was the external cladding which would insulate the building as well as improving the appearance of the neighbourhood. Changing the cladding for a less safe type saved a relatively small amount of money, but budgets are budgets, Not installing a sprinkler system would safe more money etc. All this will come out in the enquiry, 

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53 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

There is a criminal case going on, possible manslaughter charges. The culprit/causes were readily identified. £10M was the cost of modernising a 70s high rise tower, a routine event,  Part of the project was the external cladding which would insulate the building as well as improving the appearance of the neighbourhood. Changing the cladding for a less safe type saved a relatively small amount of money, but budgets are budgets, Not installing a sprinkler system would safe more money etc. All this will come out in the enquiry, 

Oh I see, now I understand a little better...... disasters are not my prefered reading so nowhere near up to speed.... if what you say is correct, I have no reason to doubt it, then some serious jail time is due..... but I won't hold my breat

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3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Johnson was Mayor 2008 - 2016, the cladding was installed 2015-16, the cutting back of council building  services and the fire service happened on his watch. Not relevant to this election, it will all come out during the next couple of years in the delayed enquiry. The relevance to this election is the 9 years of austerity resulting in the reduction of services,

You'll obviously hold on to your own view and fair do's, we're all entitled to do that.  However on your banging on about austerity, you may wish to refer back to my previous posts on this thread concerning economics and the reason why there was a need to cut public spending overall.  Of course, there will be many views on where and how any specific cuts were made, but it is difficult for any rationally-minded argument to say that cuts were not necessary.  My own specific beef would be about the cut-backs to age-related welfare.  However despite my reservations, age-related spending on health and pensions accounted for only 29% of total public spending in 1998, but is now at 36% of GDP and forecast to rise in excess of 44% during the next decade and that of course reduces the slice of the cake left over for other public services.  The only way to address this is bigger borrowings and/or tax rises.  All the bleating about austerity, whilst partially understandable, evades the reality of economic logic......we cannot forever keep on spending more and more in public services without the financial chickens coming home to roost sooner or later.  That was the problem with Gordon Brown's profligacy at the end of the Blair/Brown over-spending years!

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24 minutes ago, geosname said:

Oh I see, now I understand a little better...... disasters are not my prefered reading so nowhere near up to speed.... if what you say is correct, I have no reason to doubt it, then some serious jail time is due..... but I won't hold my breat

I do tend to scan the Standard most days, so at the time I went into it deeply, and will follow the enquiry.   Also of   interest will be the replacement of cladding on other towers which has horrendous costs involved, approx. £30/40K per flat owner, but for the next govt to sort or not.

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9 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

You'll obviously hold on to your own view and fair do's, we're all entitled to do that.  However on your banging on about austerity, you may wish to refer back to my previous posts on this thread concerning economics and the reason why there was a need to cut public spending overall.  Of course, there will be many views on where and how any specific cuts were made, but it is difficult for any rationally-minded argument to say that cuts were not necessary.  My own specific beef would be about the cut-backs to age-related welfare.  However despite my reservations, age-related spending on health and pensions accounted for only 29% of total public spending in 1998, but is now at 36% of GDP and forecast to rise in excess of 44% during the next decade and that of course reduces the slice of the cake left over for other public services.  The only way to address this is bigger borrowings and/or tax rises.  All the bleating about austerity, whilst partially understandable, evades the reality of economic logic......we cannot forever keep on spending more and more in public services without the financial chickens coming home to roost sooner or later.  That was the problem with Gordon Brown's profligacy at the end of the Blair/Brown over-spending years!

It is a Government`s responsibility to ensure people are housed safely, we are a rich nation, we have the means, tax accordingly.

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1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

It has to be replaced no matter the cost.

There is no dispute on that, but who pays? Private or  Public owned?     Some builders have admitted responsibility and paid/carried out the replacement.  Some building/lease owners impossible to trace through their tax haven mazes. Very slow progress by Govt. In the meantime 24 hour fire patrols don't come cheap.

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