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Paul6754

Port Vale and Inconsistency

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I'm just trying to understand Vale's inconsistency as a team and wonder whether it's something to do with playing Amoo and Montano in the same starting 11. Both Amoo and Montano are exciting players who on their day can win a game on their own but on the other side of the coin both can also have off days when it's just not their day. Both tried to get into the game on Saturday but couldn't apart from Amoo's superb run and cross for Vale's goal. IMHO out and out wingers like Amoo/Montano are the most inconsistent type of footballers.

So when 20% of the skilled outfield players can't get into the game and one or more of the other players are not playing up to their capability then inconsistency ensues. 

A solution is to play one of Amoo/Montano on one wing and Worrall on the other If JA is looking to play two wingers) as Worrall is a much more consistent performer IMHO and/or for JA to be more proactive substitutions, swapping Amoo/Montano/Browne earlier in the game when it's not going their way. 

Any thoughts?

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We miss Worrall's work rate and threat out wide when he moves into midfield. Keep him in his favoured position and use someone else in midfield.  Also the Worrall/ Gibbo combination is one of our most potent threats and an avenue for some of our best moves.

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43 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

I'm just trying to understand Vale's inconsistency as a team and wonder whether it's something to do with playing Amoo and Montano in the same starting 11. Both Amoo and Montano are exciting players who on their day can win a game on their own but on the other side of the coin both can also have off days when it's just not their day. Both tried to get into the game on Saturday but couldn't apart from Amoo's superb run and cross for Vale's goal. IMHO out and out wingers like Amoo/Montano are the most inconsistent type of footballers.

So when 20% of the skilled outfield players can't get into the game and one or more of the other players are not playing up to their capability then inconsistency ensues. 

A solution is to play one of Amoo/Montano on one wing and Worrall on the other If JA is looking to play two wingers) as Worrall is a much more consistent performer IMHO and/or for JA to be more proactive substitutions, swapping Amoo/Montano/Browne earlier in the game when it's not going their way. 

Any thoughts?

That makes a lot of sense. 

With a front three of Woz, Pope and Amoo we have players on the bench to come on and try to change things if required. 

I just wish JA would actually make the subs required much earlier in the game. He is very slow to react to changes by the opposition and seems reluctant to change anything at all until around 75 minutes. 

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I really don't know to be honest. You can argue formations and stuff but we have just been poorly performing recently, Think start of the season we were punching above our weight. Recently below.

We are seriously lacking in a couple of key areas.

For me I'd have the Gibbo Wozza axis down the right as a given, The left is a major problem, Amoo is either not fit of lazy at the minute. He got done for pace several times Sat, Played okay first half. Second he just walked around looking like he wanted to come off.

We have the spine of a decent team, but lacking in certain crucial parts. And to be honest we have been tactically out thought for several games. I think Askey over analyses it a bit. See his comments about why he dropped Gibbo sat. I would have though the opposite. They had no left winger so unleash Gibbo? Not play the more ponderous Atkinson. Not a dig at him he was alright first half, 

We just have such a lop sided squad again. Amoo is a luxury player, He can't play 90 week in week out. Never has. And we so need a physical presence in CM in the absence of Manny.

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I personally think that most players playing at this level are inconsistent. That’s why they are playing at this lowly level.

However, when you are trying to progress from the depths of the lowest level, you need players who can make a difference on the pitch.

Unfortunately, those sort of players have other issues. Such as Miller, Roberts etc who obviously had off field issues. Our current lot (as in previous season’s struggle’s) have injury issues.

But If you are trying to progress you have to have better players, so you take a chance on players with ability, but also fitness problems.

Sadly, these “chancer’s” rarely work out as we are currently again finding out.

Even with our current squad we should not be in relegation troubles, but we seem unlikely to trouble the top seven.

Unfortunately money talks, My worry is that we remain a mid table 4th tier team for a considerable time, which for a club of our standing is unacceptable.

This is not meant as a criticism of the current ownership, simply a view of the facts as I see them.  

I sincerely hope I am proved wrong. 

Edited by RailwayRowdy
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This wont change until we start to develop youth players into first team players on a regular basis.  We keep having to rely on players with "baggage" be it injuries or other issues and 90% of the time it doesnt work out.

I would hope the new owners are looking at the youth setup very closely.

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I’m surprised we keep playing montano. I’m not sure he’s ever showed anything to suggest he is good enough over a season. He has rare and I mean very rare decent moments. But he must have a shocking record in terms of assists. Not good enough for me. 

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Lots of factors.

We had a high press team early season.

Injuries have taken that away.

The midfield axis doesn't have enough energy/ stamina.

Worrall playing there is a massive loss.

Taylor is good, but is still developing stamina.

Conlon has a good engine which is missed.

I'd like Askey to develop a 14 player mentality and use substitutions proactively.

I said from the outset that our season would turn on keeping key players fit.

It has, massively.

Currently, we not much better than the last two seasons.

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With League 2 players you expect variations in quality which I get. Am I wrong to expect players to go out and give their all during a game ?  Understand they train as well but isnt it all about the  90 mins they are on the pitch and surely players get the fans frustration when they dont put the effort in. As Phil Sproson recently said , that's the minimum.

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3 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

I’m surprised we keep playing montano. I’m not sure he’s ever showed anything to suggest he is good enough over a season. He has rare and I mean very rare decent moments. But he must have a shocking record in terms of assists. Not good enough for me. 

Who do we have in his position who is that much better?

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3 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

I’m surprised we keep playing montano. I’m not sure he’s ever showed anything to suggest he is good enough over a season. He has rare and I mean very rare decent moments. But he must have a shocking record in terms of assists. Not good enough for me. 

I think his 5 league goals last season contributed to our survival in the league, did anyone except Popey score more?

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1 hour ago, Rampant Zebra said:

I think his 5 league goals last season contributed to our survival in the league, did anyone except Popey score more?

I wouldn’t say 5 goals for a left winger is a good return personally. 

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1 hour ago, Wrex said:

Who do we have in his position who is that much better?

I’d maybe look at amoo that side and Worrall the other. Mentioned all pre season we needed another winger and it never happened. Montano for one isn’t particularly good and two is injured half the season. You could also go with a front 3 and play Bennett out wide as we did early on, possible Browne or archer. Just don’t really see what montano offers b

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3 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

I wouldn’t say 5 goals for a left winger is a good return personally. 

I don't agree with that. For all his inconsistency, the one thing Montano does consistently is offer a decent goal return. It's currently 13 in 79 compared to say Worrall (5 in 89) or Amoo's 7 in 76 for Cambridge.

I would agree that he can be infuriating inconsistent but I think that can be argued without bringing his goalscoring into it - which is the one thing he has delivered during his Vale spell.  

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Monty is one of those typical L2 wingers, can have a sublime effort or can be dreadful in equal measure... if he was on form all the time as with any winger at this level they'd be snapped up by higher clubs.

 

 

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Best performance over the whole game all season, if JA could find the "Consistent Key" we could exceed out expectations this season. We played with high tempo, seemed first to most of the 2nd balls, came back from a diabolical penalty decision and competed all over the pitch.

What on earth was going on between Aspin and Worrall last season.

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48 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

Best performance over the whole game all season, if JA could find the "Consistent Key" we could exceed out expectations this season. We played with high tempo, seemed first to most of the 2nd balls, came back from a diabolical penalty decision and competed all over the pitch.

What on earth was going on between Aspin and Worrall last season.

Wasn't just Worrall though was it?

In hindsight now it's very clear to see that one of our legends of the past was totally out of his depth here as manager. 

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2 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Best performance over the whole game all season, if JA could find the "Consistent Key" we could exceed out expectations this season. We played with high tempo, seemed first to most of the 2nd balls, came back from a diabolical penalty decision and competed all over the pitch.

What on earth was going on between Aspin and Worrall last season.

Consistency is the difference between a Championship player and a league 2 player. Current market value about 20k a week. I'm sure it's not for want of trying. If Montano or Amoo were consistent they wouldn't be with us sadly. Vincent and to a lesser extent JMW managed on consistent season in their whole careers. The issue with consistent league 2 players by and large is they aren't that good.

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