VAR - are you for or against?

[robf]

After the events in the posh clubs' league this weekend what are your thoughts on VAR?

Are you a fan or an opponent? 

With the standard of reffing in League 2 would it be an asset or a pain in the neck?

[toyahw]

Against. But sadly in the higher leagues we are stuck with it. Football is just not clear cut enough for it to work. Unlike DRS in cricket. Those offsides this weekend were just too close for the technology to actually reliably judge. There should be some kind of umpires call for offsides as there is for other more subjective decisions. Only clear and obvious error.

Kills the atmosphere as well. You know, your team score, you take a quick glance to see if the liner's flag is up and whether the ref is pointing to the centre circle then up you go to celebrate. It's a great feeling (so long as it was at the right end). Not having to sit around and think about it for another two minutes.

Plus it is causing as much controversy as it ends.

Having said that, being an ifollower, I am happy to be a VAR official for Vale's games. Totally independent of course 😉

[Jacko51]

It is causing more problems than it is solving.  The main problem is how "clear and obvious error" is being interpreted by the refs in front of the telly.  The obvious example was that supposed handball in the Man City v Spuds game.  None of the players appealed.  None of the crowd appealed.  The ref gave nothing.  The liner gave nothing.  But a bloke in a booth miles away, after looking at a slo mo film from 15 angles, decides the ball has brushed someones arm so a goal is disallowed.  Now how was that a clear and obvious error?  It wasn't - it was extreme nit-picking.  No one on earth would have complained if that goal had stood. 

The offside issue is becoming ridiculous.  It has been shown beyond reasonable doubt that the exact position of the attacker when the ball is kicked cannot be certain.  Have a look at this article.

https://www.givemesport.com/1498162-there-are-flaws-in-var-that-mean-not-every-offside-decision-will-be-correct

In particular this section:

"The technology is simply not advanced enough to get every decision to be correct.

The laws state that a player is deemed on or offside at ‘the first point of contact’ when the ball is played. But the technology doesn’t always know when that is.

VAR uses cameras than run at 50 frames per second, with one picture taken every 0.02 seconds.

When an offside decision is being deliberated, VAR must choose the frame which proves with certainty that the ball has been touched. If Frame A shows the boot not touching the ball, then VAR must select the next one in which the ball has definitely been touched.

But the actual first point of contact will be somewhere between the frames. And in that time, a player can move from onside to offside.

This means there is a margin for error, and it varies depending on the speed of the attackers and defenders. 

Based on the fastest speed recorded in the Premier League last season - 21.75mph (35kmh) - that margin could be as big as 38.8cm.

So, if a player is found to be offside by less than the margin, the VAR can’t be sure whether they were offside or not at the moment the ball was played."

We have already seen VAR decisions disallowing goals this season when a player was deemed offside by 2 or 3 cm.  One of those would have given Spuds a 2-0 lead against Leicester this weekend.  If they are going to keep the offside law in its current incarnation then there simply has to be a margin of error in VAR decisions. 

[Tomo]

I was against it anyway as decisions are clearly as controversial as before (but instead now it's about VAR, not the ref). However, I now am even more so after learning the reason we're having brand new inexperienced/garbage referees from NL every single week is down to the fact the EFL/FA have handed all of our experienced officials over to the PL to support VAR, leaving the lower leagues with nothing YET AGAIN.

 

Can't stand the direction modern football is taking. Winds me up to no end. No sympathy for top clubs missing out on goals/points due to VAR, hate the PL with a passion.

[robf]

Just now, Tomo said:

Can't stand the direction modern football is taking. Winds me up to no end. No sympathy for top clubs missing out on goals/points, hate the PL with a passion.

I'm with you on that. I had Sky for the summer of cricket and as my subscription is still active I have been watching their coverage of the PL over the weekend. For someone who hasn't seen many televised games it's a real eye opener. Huge build-ups to incidental games, over-hype and hyperbole everywhere, the gravitas awarded a bunch of pundits (it's like they are debating at a trial) and so on - it was awful.

With the cricket over, I cancelled my subscription yesterday. I won't miss it.

I'm broadly of the opinion that we can do without the interruptions technology brings. Even in cricket, which by nature is slower, it is a constant interruption. I'd rather the investment be made in better refereeing standards and looking at that side of things. 

 

[toyahw]

17 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

It is causing more problems than it is solving.  The main problem is how "clear and obvious error"....

When an offside decision is being deliberated, VAR must choose the frame which proves with certainty that the ball has been touched. If Frame A shows the boot not touching the ball, then VAR must select the next one in which the ball has definitely been touched.....

 

You should send this excellent piece of work to Barney Ronay  of the Guardian Jean. 

[Jacko51]

It's not my work - I think it was in the Mail originally.

[Jacko51]

I've just read Ronay's report on the Chelsea v Dippers game in the Guardian.  In the comments section below is this gem.

" "Offside is offside" is the brexit approach to this discussion. Neither of the decisions today or yesterday (disclaimer I'm a spurs fan) were given by the lino. Football is a human game with human mistakes. Live with it. Var is a solution looking for a problem. Football was not broken and didn't need its introduction, and is now paying the price. "

[toyahw]

1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

 Var is a solution looking for a problem. Football was not broken and didn't need its introduction

Send Barney what you wrote Jean. Wherever it came from. He's good on VAR  Barney (also like the Guardian football podcast very much and you might get a mention). 

There was also a comment about it being aimed more for armchair TV viewers than real football men/women. Which I think is very true. And the way things are going.

[Guitar Ray]

VAR takes all the spontaneity out of the game. Controversy is part and parcel of the beautiful game.  As much as the results, performances and goals, these are things we talk about in the pub, after the match, at work on Monday morning, and often years down the line. The “what if’s”, the “we were robbed” or “we were jammy”.

VAR attempts to sanitise proceedings but only succeeds in sucking out the joy.

It’s for TV companies and armchair supporters.

The only thing I’m marginally in favour of is goal line technology, as the ball fully crossing the line could be indicated in an instant, without the need for a video replay.  Perhaps an extremely loud whistle into the refs earpiece would suffice.

[vale victory]

Completely hate it

[whotobeakiller]

I think there is a lot of scope to simply fix matches as goals are reviewed for slight technicalities and some controversial. You will have scenarios where every game has a goal reviewed and will take the flow out of matches

Regardless that VAR provides evidence you sometimes have to weigh the pro's and cons of what the whole system will do to a game of football. Every goal scored is subject to review. 

[Heatwave]

I'm for it but not the way it's been applied. Instigation of a challenge by the bench; let the competing benches have (say) 2 challenges each per half. Once the quota is used up that's it.

[philpvfc]

I’m for it. It helps get decisions correct and stops some of the cheating. Admittedly it needs improving but most of the problems are in the rules not VAR.