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Do we live in a kakistocracy?


Jacko51

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Sounds like a pretty fair description of the current government.

A PM elected by less people than voted for the Bake Off winner. A chief adviser who was found to be in contempt of Parliament. And most of them are either incompetent or liars or a combination of the two. Who is the worst member of the Cabinet? Tough choice. So many snake-oil salesmen and purveyors of fake news. 

Equally applicable is the word hackistocracy. Maybe even more so.

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3 hours ago, TheSage said:

Sounds like a pretty fair description of the current government.

A PM elected by less people than voted for the Bake Off winner. A chief adviser who was found to be in contempt of Parliament. And most of them are either incompetent or liars or a combination of the two. Who is the worst member of the Cabinet? Tough choice. So many snake-oil salesmen and purveyors of fake news. 

Equally applicable is the word hackistocracy. Maybe even more so.

How can you justify banging on and on about how many people elected Boris (which was the same as virtually all conservative PMs) yet spend 3 years denying the result of the largest ever political mandate in uk history? 

Genuine question please if you could kindly answer? 

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There is no mandate for No deal. There was a vote to leave but there were 3-4 different scenarios discussed. Leave was never explained in a manifesto. If you are so confident that there was          put it to another vote. 

I was reluctantly inclined to go along with the vote, but looking back I think we were conned. All the guff about an easy deal and we hold all the cards. I'm sorry but all that has been proven to be untrue. There was never a plan and I don't believe voters were told the truth.

Image result for lions led by donkeys brexit

Subsequently we have seen the Electoral Commission fine several bodies on the leave side and police enquiries are continuing. We also know how Cummings paid to get hold of people's on-line profiles without their consent and knowledge and targeted them with propaganda, like all the Turks coming here. That makes me very uncomfortable.

I know not everyone who voted leave fell for these tricks and I know most voted with sincere intentions. At the end of the day we all want the best for the UK. But I'm now quite uncomfortable with the way its panned out and being pushed into a catastrophic No Deal nonsense that most voters don't want.

I could live with a 'sensible' deal that did not trash the economy or put at risk the UK's future and the Irish border but not this I'm afraid. That's why Parliament don't want it.

You also keep on about this big mandate and 17.4 million. I get that. More wanted out than in. But 16 m plus didn't vote out. It was not a mandate for a No Deal. We live in a Parliamentary democracy, not a society in which the people decide every policy. It was an advisory referendum but yes parties said they'd honour the vote back then.                                                                                                With such a close result the only way you might have brought folk together was to negotiate a sensible middle of the road Brexit but that chance looks like it's now gone.

Above all, for the life of me, I can't fathom why the EU has suddenly become such a bone of contention and has monopolised all of our lives. It was fine and peaceful in 2015. Three years on we are a divided nation, have "wasted" around £80 billion already and rising (money that could have gone on hospitals and schools) and this sore will run and run. It isn't worth it. But the Cummings and Banks of this world wanted to sow the seeds of chaos and anarchy & make money from the falling pound and deregulation. They have done a pretty good job. Our fragile economy, after years of austerity, won't cope. And we've got a disgruntled and divided UK.

I understand why leavers are hopping mad, after winning the vote, but in light of the past three years I feel increasingly uneasy about it all and I honestly don't think that had we known then what we know now that we would have voted this way. 

Of course you'll disagree 100%. That's fine. But I have tried to answer you question as a (biased) remainer!

 

 

                                                                                                           

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2 hours ago, TheSage said:

With such a close result the only way you might have brought folk together was to negotiate a sensible middle of the road Brexit

                                                                                                           

To be honest, I thought that was what May had done. 

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If there was a rag bag coalition to stop an elected government carrying out the will of the people on one solitary issue..... probably.

Considering the priorities of the parties concerned.

Labour want to stop a Tory brexit not a Labour brexit.

Libs want to stop any brexit, including a Labour brexit.

SNP want independence.

Add in the disillusioned,  dissafected  and dodgy 

Most of the MPs have been elected as representatives of a party.

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9 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

How can you justify banging on and on about how many people elected Boris (which was the same as virtually all conservative PMs) yet spend 3 years denying the result of the largest ever political mandate in uk history? 

Genuine question please if you could kindly answer? 

To correct you again Regal, the Referendum in June 2016 wasn't the largest ever political mandate in uk history. Continuing to post incorrect information to try to support and beef up your weak and tenuous arguments and point of view is really the only tactic you have.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-not-largest-democratic-exercise/

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4 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

To correct you again Regal, the Referendum in June 2016 wasn't the largest ever political mandate in uk history. Continuing to post incorrect information to try to support and beef up your weak and tenuous arguments and point of view is really the only tactic you have.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-not-largest-democratic-exercise/

Paul, the link you have posted literally says: no electoral option has ever received more votes than the 17.4m leave votes in 2016. 

It is there in black and white on your own link. 

What on earth is going on, on this website? 

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3 hours ago, geosname said:

I would suggest it would depend on your angle of vision.

Although the referendum was not the largest number of votes cast overall, the leave vote did command the largest number of votes cast in a democratic choice.

The leave vote was 32,000 more than the 1975 remain vote yet the electorate was 6 million larger this time.  So as a percentage of the electorate it was not the largest ever mandate in terms of percentage of the electorate.

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