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Mr Trump: he's such a nice man!


Jacko51
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45 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Read the comments ... as previously mentioned. The Trumpism behaviour has already started to bleed into the UK and I fear will continue to do so.

The truth no longer matters, stoke up the hatred and feed off its energy.

But don’t you dare call them fascists. That’s going over the top. Oh and here is a gibbet they built and one of the terrorists with zip ties for any hostages he could take.

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Edited by Andyregs

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On 22/09/2019 at 08:17, Andyregs said:

Just an extra point on the cost related to outcome. You’re ignoring the money the investigation brought in from the like of manafort, and the numerous indictments. Compare that to Benghazi. And Clinton was questioned for 11 hours. It was decided trump couldn’t speak at all without perjuring himself. Trumps golf trips (one of his many projections about other people) cost far more than an investigation that led to people going to prison. 

 

 

Edited by Doha

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I'm furious with Trump this week. He has played it so badly since the court cases were thrown out. He's turned a narrow defeat into a travesty. His only card was to accept that even if he still believed he had evidence of fraud, that he couldn't 'win' in time to prevent an inauguration. That's even if he has any evidence of course. 

 He's given Biden and Harris license to legislate in (previously unconscionable) ways to "prevent another trump".

I hope I'm wrong about Biden and Harris but I just can't see it. Not with the media and especially big tech pulling all the strings. No one will come out of restrictions on speech and political beliefs any better. 

I felt pretty confident that western society could keep the crazies at bay even with a Biden/Harris term but not now they have the senate and this false moral high ground with which they can attack their opponents in the name of the hijacked social justice causes.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

I'm furious with Trump this week. He has played it so badly since the court cases were thrown out. He's turned a narrow defeat into a travesty. His only card was to accept that even if he still believed he had evidence of fraud, that he couldn't 'win' in time to prevent an inauguration. That's even if he has any evidence of course. 

 He's given Biden and Harris license to legislate in (previously unconscionable) ways to "prevent another trump".

I hope I'm wrong about Biden and Harris but I just can't see it. Not with the media and especially big tech pulling all the strings. No one will come out of restrictions on speech and political beliefs any better. 

I felt pretty confident that western society could keep the crazies at bay even with a Biden/Harris term but not now they have the senate and this false moral high ground with which they can attack their opponents in the name of the hijacked social justice causes.

 

 

Before this happened you stated you were ok with him spouting his rhetoric about the election being stolen and whipping up his base.

I asked if you would be ok with your boss making up accusations against you and continuing to spout them throughout your company and industry even if he couldn’t prove them in court.

If you are suddenly furious, it feel like you were blind to what was clearly going to happen. He whipped up an angry mob with accusations he couldn’t prove in court and now 5 people are dead

You refer to “Preventing another Trump” as though that’s a negative.

For you to call the Dems high ground as “False” is very telling.

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18 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Before this happened you stated you were ok with him spouting his rhetoric about the election being stolen and whipping up his base.

I asked if you would be ok with your boss making up accusations against you and continuing to spout them throughout your company and industry even if he couldn’t prove them in court.

If you are suddenly furious, it feel like you were blind to what was clearly going to happen. He whipped up an angry mob with accusations he couldn’t prove in court and now 5 people are dead

You refer to “Preventing another Trump” as though that’s a negative.

For you to call the Dems high ground as “False” is very telling.

 

I'm not saying "preventing another Trump" is negative...The way in which I think they will go about it is hugely negative. It will be used as an excuse to take away rights from ordinary people. I've said before on this website that if you create a power as a stick to beat your opponent with, eventually your opponent will get hold of that stick. Just think - any law created by Biden/Harris now - would you be happy for Trump hypothetically to have that power in 4 years time? (not that he can win another presidency now in my view, but the point is valid).

 

Let's remember that we've had a summer of rioting across America. Multiple federal buildings and court houses taken by force, damaged, occupied, defaced. People murdered for their beliefs. People trying to get into the homes of politicians. It was justified by many because they felt the cause was worthy. 

 

I'm not denying that the last few days has crossed a line that we've not seen crossed before, but there was precedent. And there was not much outrage during that precedent from the people who are now going to be making the law. That's the false moral supremacy I was referring too.

 

Biden and Harris/Pelosi et al are not outraged by violent protesters storming federal buildings. They're outraged by violent protesters that they disagree with, storming federal buildings.  Trump would probably be exactly the same. But Trump is not going to be the most powerful person in the world as of 20th January.

 

Just realised I should probably make it clear that I find all forms of political violence abhorrent and the people at capitol hill have betrayed everyone in America. 

Edited by Regal Beagle

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36 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

 

I'm not saying "preventing another Trump" is negative...The way in which I think they will go about it is hugely negative. It will be used as an excuse to take away rights from ordinary people. I've said before on this website that if you create a power as a stick to beat your opponent with, eventually your opponent will get hold of that stick. Just think - any law created by Biden/Harris now - would you be happy for Trump hypothetically to have that power in 4 years time? (not that he can win another presidency now in my view, but the point is valid).

 

Let's remember that we've had a summer of rioting across America. Multiple federal buildings and court houses taken by force, damaged, occupied, defaced. People murdered for their beliefs. People trying to get into the homes of politicians. It was justified by many because they felt the cause was worthy. 

 

I'm not denying that the last few days has crossed a line that we've not seen crossed before, but there was precedent. And there was not much outrage during that precedent from the people who are now going to be making the law. That's the false moral supremacy I was referring too.

 

Biden and Harris/Pelosi et al are not outraged by violent protesters storming federal buildings. They're outraged by violent protesters that they disagree with, storming federal buildings.  Trump would probably be exactly the same. But Trump is not going to be the most powerful person in the world as of 20th January.

 

Just realised I should probably make it clear that I find all forms of political violence abhorrent and the people at capitol hill have betrayed everyone in America. 

And your boss spouting the negative non provable accusations at you to ruin your career?

You said you were ok with Trump doing it... I don’t see the difference?

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1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

I'm furious with Trump this week. He has played it so badly since the court cases were thrown out. He's turned a narrow defeat into a travesty. His only card was to accept that even if he still believed he had evidence of fraud, that he couldn't 'win' in time to prevent an inauguration. That's even if he has any evidence of course. 

 He's given Biden and Harris license to legislate in (previously unconscionable) ways to "prevent another trump".

I hope I'm wrong about Biden and Harris but I just can't see it. Not with the media and especially big tech pulling all the strings. No one will come out of restrictions on speech and political beliefs any better. 

I felt pretty confident that western society could keep the crazies at bay even with a Biden/Harris term but not now they have the senate and this false moral high ground with which they can attack their opponents in the name of the hijacked social justice causes.

 

 

Like any of this was absolutely obviously going to happen. This was on the cards for months. It isn’t a false moral high ground. It is the moral high ground. You criticised the use of words like fascist, coup etc. And here we are. And even now you’re concern is about Biden and Harris. 

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On 19/10/2019 at 16:53, Andyregs said:

Ive already said that they will all eventually deny it. But they are all complicit. 

 

On 28/09/2019 at 20:42, Andyregs said:

 It’s going to be an interesting year. But without a doubt, there will come a time when they all deny ever supporting him.

It starting to happen.

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5 hours ago, Andyregs said:

Like any of this was absolutely obviously going to happen. This was on the cards for months. It isn’t a false moral high ground. It is the moral high ground. You criticised the use of words like fascist, coup etc. And here we are. And even now you’re concern is about Biden and Harris. 

And how much accountability should be shouldered by the people who have been calling Trump a fascist and using words like coup?

I mean he still isn't a fascist, and this wasn't a coup in any realistic sense of either word, so whether or not violent protests was on the cards, you're still blowing up any sense of proportionality by using those words, if words are so dangerous then surely it's dangerous to use words like that when they don't apply?

Trump's actions in the last few days have allowed the dems to claim the moral highground. It's false because of the reasons I've given. They did nothing to stop months of violence. Months of federal buildings being attacked, taken over, people being murdered, looting, carnage, it's still going on in some states.

You can't just ignore that can you? If one lot of violence is justifiable and the other isn't, you need to explain why. 

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13 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

There's a clear difference. That's why I'm not answering it. 

Honestly I can’t see the difference... I’m not being argumentative for the sake of it here. Like you I have a new way of dealing with debates like this... I’m not doing it to try and change you mind or prove a point, I’m keen to understand. 

Spell it out for me as they are the same.

Neither are true, both are damaging, both impact other people’s lives. Yet one is ok and one isn’t?

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39 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

They did nothing to stop months of violence. Months of federal buildings being attacked, taken over, people being murdered, looting, carnage, it's still going on in some states.

Biden, or any leading democrat did nothing to start them either. Unlike Trump whose self protectionism and lies about the election caused the riots in the first place. 

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1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

I mean he still isn't a fascist, and this wasn't a coup in any realistic sense of either word

Total, total bullshlt and you know it. Stop with your whataboutery for just once. He was recorded on tape trying to intimidate an election official to 'find' him the exact number of votes to win a state. He incited his cult to riot at the Capitol building and harm Mike Pence for not breaking the law for him. This was a failed coup. 

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Quote

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/01/capitol-riot-senior-trump-official-calls-him-a-fascist.html

Senior Trump Official: We Were Wrong, He’s a ‘Fascist’

On Friday afternoon, 48 hours after the U.S. Capitol was stormed by violent insurrectionists encouraged by Donald Trump in an attempt to overthrow the government in protest of his election loss, a senior member of his administration spoke to me while he was driving to work.

“This is confirmation of so much that everyone has said for years now — things that a lot of us thought were hyperbolic. We’d say, ‘Trump’s not a fascist,’ or ‘He’s not a wannabe dictator.’ Now, it’s like, ‘Well, what do you even say in response to that now?’”

For four years, people like this official — lifelong Republican operatives — have convinced themselves that Trump’s obvious faults were worth tolerating if it meant implementing a conservative policy agenda. These officials believed the benefits of remaking the courts with conservative justices, or passing tax reform, outweighed the risks that a Trump presidency posed to democracy and to the reputation of the country in the world. Now, at the eleventh hour, with twelve days left before Joe Biden is sworn into office, it’s clear to some that it was always a delusion.

“This is like a plot straight out of the later, sucky seasons of House of Cards where they just go full evil and say, ‘Let’s spark mass protests and start wars and whatever,’” the senior administration official said.

“I went through Access Hollywood, Charlottesville — all of these insane things. There’s some degree of growing accustomed to the craziness. It’s not like my heart is racing, like, Oh, God, how am I supposed to react to this? It’s just more that I’m depressed. For people who devoted years of their lives to dealing with the insanity in an attempt to advance a policy agenda that you believe in, all of that has been wiped out. The legacy of the Trump administration is going to be that the president sparked an insurrection and people died because he tried his best to not abide by the Constitution and the tradition of a peaceful transition of power that’s been the norm since our founding. Nothing else is even going to be a side note.”

Trump’s world has grown ever smaller as the damage he inflicts on the United States continues to swell. Wednesday’s attack on the Capitol, which left five dead, including a police officer, prompted resignations in the administration and calls for Trump to do the same and threats — from Democratic and Republican lawmakers — of a second impeachment as well as vaguer discussions about the 25th Amendment. Trump is an increasingly symbolic figure — Norma Desmond with the nuclear codes and sycophantic butlers in his ears on a West Wing Sunset Boulevard soundstage. With no power left to grab, many staffers spent the weeks following November 3 making themselves scarce, plotting their post-White House careers, avoiding the president’s calls.

But many others are keeping their heads down and keeping their jobs, citing, among other self-serving interests, a desire to remain on their health care plans, according to my interviews with staffers. Others justify their continued employment by citing the demands of the continuity of government.

“There’s not a single person I have talked to at any level, from 23-year-old assistants to members of the Cabinet, who are not disgusted and ashamed with what has happened,” the senior administration official said, adding that the conversations among remaining officials were about how to handle the next twelve days before Joe Biden’s administration — and whether to continue to be a part of the transition of power at all. “It’s different for everybody. If you’re a regular domestic policy staffer in the West Wing or the EEOB, the implications of you quitting are different than if you’re a senior national security official, or you’re tasked with contributing to the continuity of government.”

“We are in a terrible spot,” the official said, “You can’t just say, ‘Well, this is outrageous and I quit’ in this situation.”

Trump’s inner circle has contracted amid the self-created chaos and carnage. For this reason, resignations have not had much of an effect on him directly. “He may not even notice,” one adviser said. “People aren’t around to begin with. There aren’t policy meetings with the president and eight or ten people in there anymore.”

Advisers have expressed concern and anger over Mark Meadows, the chief of staff, whose actions have been perceived as an effort to secure employment with Trump in his post-presidency, perhaps at the Trump Organization. “Jared has been telling people, ‘Don’t even deal with him anymore,’” one adviser said. “Mark’s responsible for bringing kook after crazy after conniver after Rudy into the West Wing.” (“This is completely false,” Avi Berkowitz, Jared Kushner’s spokesman, said in a tweet responding to this article, “Jared has never said that.”) A former senior White House official said, “Morale plummeted under him, huge mistakes were made — and now he’s scrambling to stick around after. He’s a dishonest asshole who pretends to be this religious Southern gentleman. <ovf censored> that.”

The senior administration official put it this way: “The only way it gets to this point are a thousand really bad small decisions. The first time Sidney Powell calls the White House switchboard and is allowed to speak to the president, the next thing you know she and others are in the West Wing — these are areas where the chief of staff has unilateral authority to do what he wants to do.” Instead, the official said, Meadows tells Trump what he wants to hear, and often calls whomever Trump has directed him to call, repeats what Trump told him to say, and then apologizes, explaining that he just needs to be able to tell the boss that he followed his orders.

Meanwhile, the yes-men are countered mostly by the lawyers, who have tried to convey to Trump that he has put himself at risk of prosecution — not just by inciting Wednesday’s riot, for which the Justice Department is reportedly open to pursuing charges — but for his phone call to Georgia election officials, in which he attempted to pressure them to overturn the results, as well as in the many ongoing investigations related to his businesses and finances.

“It’s a lot to adjust to. If you think you’re going to be there for four more years, it’s a bit jarring,” the adviser said. “The smart lawyers have gotten to him. It’s all hit him since yesterday: You may have legal exposure from yesterday. You definitely have legal exposure from other things. You have less than two weeks to remain ensconced in here with executive privilege.” 

This adviser, who spoke to Trump on Wednesday amid the siege, said Trump watched the events on television intently. CNN reported that he was so excited by the action, it “freaked out” some staffers around him. The adviser told me that Trump expressed disgust on aesthetic grounds over how “low class” his supporters looked. “He doesn’t like low class things,” the adviser said, explaining that Trump had a similar reaction over the summer to a video of Brad Parscale, his former campaign manager, shirtless and drinking a beer in his driveway during a mental health emergency in which police tackled him and seized his weapons. “He kept mentioning, ‘Oh, did you see him in his beer shirt?’ He was annoyed. To him, it’s just low class, in other words.”

The adviser said that Trump recently offered them a pardon, although they have not been charged with any crime. The adviser “politely declined.” Others are taking Trump’s pardon offers more seriously, whether they’ve been investigated or are at risk of jail time or not. “He’s just talking up a storm about giving pardons to allies: His kids, and their significant others, and staffers. He’s pretty generous with the offers. When you’re offered one, it’s like, Should I take it? Is it like insurance?”

One person close to Trump’s legal team told me that the lawyers have struggled to get his attention. “He’s sort of turning on everybody. The president is so visceral, he just can’t hear people unless he can respect them. And he thinks everybody’s a traitor, even the people who got him through impeachment. It’s just nuts.”

 

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