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Mr Trump: he's such a nice man!


Jacko51
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We all know exactly what is going to happen. When it finds precisely <ovf censored> all, that will be used as evidence of a conspiracy. Like the flat earth lot, Nutters gonna nut. Donald was right about one thing, there's lots of money to be made off the gullible, it's why he said he loves the poorly educated.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-love-poorly-educated/

 

Edited by Doha
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1 hour ago, Paul6754 said:

Four companies have been hired by the Arizona Senate to participate in the Maricopa County Audit. I believe experts have also been consulted to map out the process for the forensic audit.

Apparently there is a volunteer representative from the Democratic and Republican Parties plus an observer at each of the tables where the processing is being done. There are nine cameras live streaming the proceedings and apparently more cameras at each of the tables.

This audit is being driven by "We the people" of Arizona who feel a sense of injustice about events on 3rd November.

The Democrats, locally and nationally,  have tried everything in their power to stop/limit the audit and continue to do so, what have they got to hide.

https://azaudit.org/

This is so wrong its not even worth arguing.

The audit is being done by one firm which is run by an election conspiracy theorist who took part in the insurrection at the Capitol. 

An open letter from someone actually watching the audit:

I’m writing from Phoenix, where I’m spending the week covering a remarkable GOP audit of the 2020 election in Maricopa county, home to the majority of Arizona’s registered voters.

The audit, which is unprecedented in US elections, is being watched with alarm around the country. Experts say it is a non-credible effort to fuel doubts about the 2020 race. And there’s some evidence similar efforts could pop up elsewhere.

Maricopa county has already conducted multiple audits of the 2020 race and confirmed the results. The firm hired by the GOP-controlled Arizona senate has little experience in election audits, and experts are deeply concerned its methodology is unreliable and will only lead to more doubt about the results of the 2020 race in Arizona. The CEO of the firm, called Cyber Ninjas, supported baseless conspiracy theories about the election. The effort also appears to be receiving considerable outside funding from Trump allies who tried to assist in his efforts to overthrow the election results.

The audit is taking place in a coliseum on McDowell Road here in Phoenix that used to be home to the Suns, the city’s basketball team (its nickname is the Madhouse on McDowell). For all the attention around the audit, the thing that stood out to me the most when I watched it up close on Tuesday was how slow and sleepy things were. Of the 46 tables in the arena, less than half were filled with people counting. Ken Bennett, a former Arizona secretary of state who is serving as the senate’s liaison to the audit, said officials hoped to have more counters in the arena soon, but temporary workers were undergoing background checks.

Audit counters are divided into several teams and wear colored shirts to denote which they are a part of (there’s pink, blue, green and yellow). Three members of each team are at each table and mark down what’s on the ballot as it rotates on a lazy susan around the table. The whole process isn’t quick – I timed one table counting 29 ballots in three minutes on Tuesday.

Once a batch of ballots is counted, a designated person at the table makes sure the tallies of all three counters match. The ballots then are moved over to a second station, where workers photograph them and put them through a device resembling a scanner. The purpose of this station appears to be to verify the authenticity of the ballots. It reportedly relies on dubious technology from Jovan Pulitzer, an election conspiracy-theory advocate, that purports to verify the authenticity of ballots by checking the paper folds and ink. Auditors are also reportedly looking for traces of bamboo in the ballot paper, an echo of a baseless conspiracy theory that ballots were smuggled in from Asia. Even some people helping with the audit are skeptical of Pulitzer’s technology.

“This guy is nuts,” John Brakey, an election transparency advocate who was brought in to help with the audit, told reporters on Tuesday. “He’s a fraudster … It’s ridiculous that we’re doing some of this.”

Outside the stadium, I noticed a small tent with about five supporters that had signs supporting the audit. It was surrounded by signs that said “expose voter fraud” and that labeled the Republican-controlled Maricopa county board of supervisors, which objected to the audit, “enemies of the nation”. I sat down in one of the lawn chairs they had set up and asked them what exactly they hoped the audit would achieve, especially since the county had already audited the ballots.

“We are pretty certain that Biden did win something. He won the most out of state votes, he won the most non-registered votes, he won the most double votes and people out of state, and all of that,” said Kelly Johnson, a retired lawyer from Huntington, California, who traveled to Phoenix to support the audit. There’s no evidence of Arizona or elsewhere of widespread voter fraud or other malfeasance.

I followed up by asking Johnson if he would accept Biden won Arizona and the election if the audit showed that was true. “Personally, yes,” he said.

 

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From Politifact

https://www.politifact.com/article/2021/may/04/ask-politifact-why-are-arizona-republicans-auditin/

Headlines:

1. This is a Partisan driven Audit paid for by the GOP and conducted by the GOPs choice of firm

2. That firm has no experience in conducting Audits of this nature... And if the numbers vary, some may conclude that they simply can't trust an election outcome — even though the inconsistency is entirely the fault of an ill-conceived and poorly executed audit.

3. That firm is run by  by Doug Logan, who was part of the "stop the steal" conspiracy theories about the election that culminated in the Jan. 6 Capitol attack.

4. The audit was not set up to be transparent

5. Tammy Patrick, an elections expert at the Democracy Fund, said some of the steps don’t fit in with standard audit procedures.

"The things they are doing with UV lights and whether a ballot folded or type of ink used, none of those things are regular parts of audits and here’s why: it tells you nothing," said Patrick, a former federal compliance officer for Maricopa County Elections Department, and a Democrat. "They are making assumptions on each of those things as if it would be an indicator of fraud or malfeasance or problems."

6. Trey Grayson, a former Kentucky secretary of state and a Republican, said the audit is a "disservice to democracy."

7. Election experts as well as some election officials in other states have criticized the audit. 

"This ‘audit’ in Arizona is another step in undermining confidence in elections," tweeted Gabriel Sterling, a Republican election official in Georgia who batted down false election claims by Trump. "This process is neither transparent nor, likely, legal. Any ‘findings’ will be highly suspect now that the chain of custody has been violated by partisan actors."

 

 

So its painfully obvious what will happen from here.

The results will come back and claim there are some discrepancies with votes... these will NOT be fraud. but will be the interpretation of the Trump leaning CEO of the company hired by the GOP to conduct the audit based on their own assumptions.

The discrepancies will be things like, strange folds on the paper, or strange patterns of votes (Like people voting for Biden). Again... not proof of anything other than a weird conspiracy.

They will not release the details of the discrepancies but leave that statement hanging there for the Trump cult to suckle at and ease their pain.

 

Either that or the audit will show no issues at all and Trump and Paul will come out and admit there was no fraud. yeah right.

 

The best line in the paper is this. 

If you’re a Republican who supports this audit, ask yourself this: If the Democrats had lost, how would you feel if this was their response?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

You do love your rich lefties.

See what the audit finds unless Biden stops it via the DOJ.

The audit is partisan and biased. 

To a neutral... the only definitive answer it can give is there was no fraud.

If the cult cared about what anyone outside the cult thought, this would have been a serious error of judgement to make it so biased.... proof indeed they are only doing this for the benefit of whipping up those already in the cult with the hope of capture a few cult leaning Americans as a bonus.

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2 hours ago, Iron Curtain said:

 

The best line in the paper is this. 

If you’re a Republican who supports this audit, ask yourself this: If the Democrats had lost, how would you feel if this was their response?

 

 

Excellent question. What’s your answer, Paul?

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Stop the press... HUGE finding in the Audit!!

Turns out that Trump was really smart and put watermarks in the ballot papers and didnt tell anyone about it. The audit has found LOADS of ballots without the secret watermark proving they are fake... Im shook!

Oh.... no... wait... wait... That didn't happen!

That's not true? But I heard it on Facebook?  

https://eu.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/05/04/arizona-ballot-watermarks-fact-check-conspiracy-theory/4938666001/

Idiots. 

Edited by Iron Curtain

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On 04/05/2021 at 18:52, Iron Curtain said:

Im telling nobody anything... the outrage from the black community is well documented and out there in the public domain as well as on this thread. Im choosing to listen to them. You are just choosing to ignore it. You are also choosing to tell them what they should be offended by.

White man tells black community not to be offended by something offensive they are actually offended by and instead they are wrong and should be offended by something else... Stop doing being offended wrong. Classic.

For the 9179798439865987435938453rd time... I dont think this was a policy to bring down black people and therefore I dont think its a racist policy. It just so happens to impact the black community badly. For the 9179798439865987435938453rd time... if supressing ginger people helped the rebublicans they would supress their vote too.

One party is trying to make voting more difficult. Thats supression by its definition.

I will ask my question again... if an ID is FUNDAMENTAL to life in the US like you and Paul keep telling me... to buy Alcohol is the example I keep being given... why... WHY do the black community have a lower portion of people with ID?

I put it to you its because its more difficult to get one as demonstrated by multiple articles and papers on this thread that you continue to ignore.

What's your explanation?

I also still wait for the proof of fraud which is the problem this is supposed to cure.

 

The outrage from a minority of the black community is well documented.

 

The support of photographic ID from a majority of the black community is also well documented.

 

I've given my explanation your question too. Seen as I've proven that there are no legal or monetary barriers to prevent or make it harder for black people to get photo ID. That pretty conclusively rules out the batty conspiracy theory that republicans want to supress the votes of black people - as was the initial allegation.

 

They don't. They want fairer and more transparent elections. I wonder why democrats are so against that?

 

Georgia's Top Elections Official Claims 1,000 People Committed Voter Fraud In Primary (forbes.com)

What happens next in North Carolina congressional race re-do? - ABC News (go.com)

 

And maybe it will help to prevent the rejection of ballots:

California rejected 100,000 mail-in ballots because of mistakes | PBS NewsHour

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/520432-about-50000-ohio-voters-receive-wrong-absentee-ballots

 

It isn't just the US as I've mentioned, and was bizarrely dismissed when we were talking about black people even though its not about black people but it affects black people the most....or something like that: Voting Fraud Is a Real Concern. Just Look Around the World | Opinion (newsweek.com)

 

 

It's clear as day. Mail in voting is especially prone to fraud and errors. That's way many countries have stricter rules surrounding it. 

 

Photo ID isn't "making it harder to vote" it's making the vote more trustworthy. You may have a leg to stand on if you couldn't literally go and get free ID in all states that have the strictest photo ID requirements.

 

 

Let me know if you need any more examples.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

The outrage from a minority of the black community is well documented.

 

The support of photographic ID from a majority of the black community is also well documented.

 

I've given my explanation your question too. Seen as I've proven that there are no legal or monetary barriers to prevent or make it harder for black people to get photo ID. That pretty conclusively rules out the batty conspiracy theory that republicans want to supress the votes of black people - as was the initial allegation.

 

They don't. They want fairer and more transparent elections. I wonder why democrats are so against that?

 

Georgia's Top Elections Official Claims 1,000 People Committed Voter Fraud In Primary (forbes.com)

What happens next in North Carolina congressional race re-do? - ABC News (go.com)

 

And maybe it will help to prevent the rejection of ballots:

California rejected 100,000 mail-in ballots because of mistakes | PBS NewsHour

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/520432-about-50000-ohio-voters-receive-wrong-absentee-ballots

 

It isn't just the US as I've mentioned, and was bizarrely dismissed when we were talking about black people even though its not about black people but it affects black people the most....or something like that: Voting Fraud Is a Real Concern. Just Look Around the World | Opinion (newsweek.com)

 

 

It's clear as day. Mail in voting is especially prone to fraud and errors. That's way many countries have stricter rules surrounding it. 

 

Photo ID isn't "making it harder to vote" it's making the vote more trustworthy. You may have a leg to stand on if you couldn't literally go and get free ID in all states that have the strictest photo ID requirements.

 

 

Let me know if you need any more examples.

 

 

Baaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha!

You sound so unconvincing on this... a joy to read! Even more enjoyable to pick holes in.

From your own article where a Republican claims “1,000 people committed fraud

According to the Associated Press, when Raffensperger was asked to present proof, he didn't provide any evidence of voter intent, other than mentioning one voter in Long County who he said bragged about voting twice.

This approach of just telling blantent lies because they know that people won’t think for themselves and just believe them is a very worrying trend. 

No proof... all lies.

This is so weak from you RB, and you know it, your arguments are getting weaker, your sources are getting weaker. You know it but can’t stop... you have fully crossed the line into Paul territory. 

Here is an example... you know that “the majority of black voters support ID” doesn’t tell the story... you know this because you do as much digging into all aspects and research thoroughly (apparently)

So you know that the % of black voters that support it (67%) is a) less that the % of black voters that actually have ID and b) lower than the total 75% indicating a significant gap in how the communities see the issue. 

Weak.

Another example... using RB tactic #3 you just state things as fact that are completely the opposite. 

You say “Photo ID isn’t making it harder to vote”... but it is, isn’t it. That’s obvious. It demands an additional step. That’s a fundamental fact. You even stated earlier that it’s being done to reduce fraud, so a trade off. So this weird lie is a bit strange.

Weak.

Some questions you fail to answer continually. 

If ID is FUNDAMENTAL to life... why do lower socio economic groups have a higher portion of people without ID?

Why do you refuse to acknowledge the multiple sources that explain clearly the cost of getting a free ID?

Where is the proof of the fraud that this “solution” is supposed to fix? PROOF.

How would stopping early Sunday voting stop Fraud?

Do you belive the current Audit in Arizona is independent?

If you claim to judge all sources of information equally why quote John Lott a member of Trumps administration? The good old RB double standards at play again... he also wrote a book called “More guns less crime” out of interest! 

Edited by Iron Curtain

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On 04/05/2021 at 19:39, Iron Curtain said:

Both these facts are wrong and deniable. 

https://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/FullReportVoterIDJune20141.pdf

Yet another paper that demonstrates it... you will not read it. I mean you will read every word of the Sidney Powell court papers to find the wording to back up your claims. But you have ignored these links and papers from day one.

I note you stated in the past that you apply the same rigour to challenging theories on both sides.

I laughed.

Maybe you will read this summary:

The Bottom Line:

High Costs of a “Free” Photo Voter ID The examples in this report demonstrate how obtaining a “free” photo voter identification card can impose significant costs on individuals—typically from about $75 to $175. Examples detailed in this report and Appendix I show that the cost of “free” voter IDs can rise beyond $1,500 or more, particularly when legal services are required. “Free” voter IDs are expensive. They constitute both a “time tax” on people’s lives and livelihoods, and a “poll tax” on their pocketbooks and voting rights. The complicated nature of the examples above underscores the complexity of the process of figuring out and responding to bureaucratic requirements as a modern day “literacy test” and the extent of planning and resources that are necessary to get an official ID to cast a simple ballot.

 

A few examples from the paper itself:

Example 1:

A Pennsylvania resident seeking a “free” voter ID had incurred costs of $94.61 so far, which were likely to eventually reach $133.61. The potential voter traveled 34 miles round trip to and from the PennDOT agency in Bethlehem, an estimated hour of travel time. After a 75-minute wait, she was advised that she needed to present a raised-seal birth certificate from her home state of New York and an updated

Social Security card. Subsequently, she requested a birth certificate from New York State. She then traveled to a local Social Security office and was informed that a raised-seal marriage certificate was also required to obtain the updated Social Security card. She then requested a marriage certificate from New York State. She now needs to return to the Social Security office with the marriage certificate to get an updated Social Security card.

Then, she needs to return to PennDOT to provide the birth certificate and updated Social Security card to get a voter ID. The direct costs of this “free” voter ID include acquiring a certified copy of a birth certificate for $38.80. For a woman whose name has changed, it includes acquiring a certified copy of her marriage certificate for $15. This brings the document cost to $53.80. The author of the letter estimated the total travel costs for gas at $20 to complete the process. In time costs, the trip to PennDOT took an estimated one hour of travel.

At minimum wage of $7.25 per hour, one hour’s time cost was $7.25. The voter spent 75 minutes (1¼ hour) at the PennDOT office. The time spent during the trip to the Social Security office was about 2 hours (1 hour travel; 1 hour visit). The voter will need an additional trip to the Social Security office with the sealed marriage certificate to get her updated Social Security card. That trip will likely take another 2 hours. She will then have to return to PennDOT for an estimated 2 hours. The total time cost is: 8¼ hours at $7.25 per hour, or $59.81.

In summary, the current incurred costs for this voter to get a “free” voter ID are: $53.80 for documents, $10.00 for gas and $30.81 for time, or $94.61. Factoring in future additional trips to the Social Security Office and PennDOT, the likely final total cost will include an additional $10.00 in gas and $29.00 in time, or $133.61.

Example 2:

Voter Donna Suggs struggled to get a voter ID.65 Because she did not have a birth certificate (since she was born by midwife), she needed legal assistance. She was provided with pro bono aid from an attorney to acquire the certificate. Then she traveled to the DMV to get a photo ID. The cost for a South Carolina birth certificate was $12.

Her estimated roundtrip public transportation costs (at $2 each way) to the attorney’s office were $4 and to the DMV were about another $4 for a total of $8. She estimates having spent 4 hours consulting an attorney (including 1 hour travel time), 4 hours changing her birth certificate (assuming one hour travel, three waiting), and 3 hours traveling to and from and waiting at the DMV. At minimum wage of $7.25 per hour, the 11 hours were worth $79.75.

Her total costs were $12 for documents, $8 for travel, and $79.75 in time, for a total of $99.75. If she had not been provided pro bono legal assistance, she would have needed about 8 hours of legal services at a minimum of $150/hr, or $1200, plus a filing fee of $150, totaling $1,350.66 This would have increased the cost of her “free” voter ID to $1,449.75.

@Regal Beagle why do you continually ignore this?

TLDR: Free ID has hidden costs for the black community which you refuse to acknowledge.

Edited by Iron Curtain

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On 06/05/2021 at 17:02, Jacko51 said:

Excellent question. What’s your answer, Paul?

If there had been the same suspicion of voter fraud and filed affidavits of wrong doing at the polling centers than I would have supported a forensic audit in the interests of ensuring election integrity in the future.

Lefties conveniently forget that the Democrats didn't accept the result of the 2016 election citing Russian Collusion. Trump initiated a Special Enquiry which found there was no collusion, transcripts of meetings were also released which showed the only collusion was between the Democrats, the Clinton's and the Russians in compiling a fraudulent dossier to enable the FBI to spy on American citizens, a true disgrace and a crime for which no one has yet been held accountable.

If evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia had been found and proven Trump would have been tried for treason.

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