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Match thread: Port Vale v Bury

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The quantity over quality argument just isn’t there. We’ve only got 25 players signed. Under aspin and Brown we were mid 30s, maybe even pushing 40 in numbers once we added in loans. 

 

Brown

 

Gibbons

Evans

Legge

Smith

Kennedy

Rawlinson

Crookes

Campbell Gordon *

 

Joyce

Manny

Conlon

Burgess

Trickett Smith

Lloyd

Berks*

Green birch *

 

Whitfield *

Worrall

Monty

Amoo

Pope

Cullen

Brown

Bennett

 

Have I missed anyone?

 

*Of those 25 players, 3 of them are first year pros and 1 is not wanted and will probably not feature. So realistically we’ve got a squad of 21 players that will be utilised in the first game. (22 once a keeper signs).

 

The squads of the last couple of seasons got out of hand with the addition of the loan players. To a point where we had too many of them to even be able to feature them all in the matchday squads. Many of those weren’t good enough to get in to the starting 11. 

 

Going back on to the topic of what’s changed behind the scenes even though we virtually the same starting 11 as last year. The backroom set up is totally different in terms of the preparation and also very importantly the type of training they are doing and even the basic game plan. Aspin did not take training, he only went to work with the starting 11 on team shape on a Thursday and Friday. The weekly training was lead by Nogan, I heard rumours that the stuff they were doing was too basic and a step backwards. Plus it’s plain to see our main gameplan under Aspin was to try and keep it tight and hope to pick up second balls off Pope. Since Askey and Kevan have come in it supposedly been much better in the drills and patterns of play they’ve been doing. Also Aspin got rid of the GPS, this is back in now, it’s a great way to be able to see what a player is doing and how to improve maybe small percentages of their game. Opposition analysis was not done by Aspin until the last couple of months of his reign. We genuinely had no clue what the opposition would be doing in many games. Also let’s not rule out the Norman factor, the facilities and training / game preparation were lacking to help the players. This has all been improved now from the daily meals to facilities around the ground and the travel to away games too. We don’t yet know how all of this will affect our final points tally, it may only make a small difference, but I think Askey needs a preseason (which he’s had with the players) and he needs a full season and more than just one window. It’s going to be slow going to turn around I think.

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10 hours ago, CAVALIER said:

Sorry, some great excuses on here but we were beaten fair and square by a team who are bust, had no players 2 weeks ago and could have won by more.

If their triallists are that could with naff all team building etc then we should have them rather than ex Macc players.

Hope I’m wrong but it’s going to be tough 

Your thoughts on the Burnley game?

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4 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Your thoughts on the Burnley game?

What does that have to do with the Bury game? 

It's just "whataboutism"... 

Because someone does great one time, does that equal they can't be crap next time?

As far as I can read, Cavalier commented his thoughts on the Bury game, not the Burnley game. Please correct me (anyone of you), if I'm mistaken?

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1 minute ago, Danish Valiant said:

What does that have to do with the Bury game? 

It's just "whataboutism"... 

Because someone does great one time, does that equal they can't be crap next time?

As far as I can read, Cavalier commented his thoughts on the Bury game, not the Burnley game. Please correct me (anyone of you), if I'm mistaken?

The point is that people have started basing this doom and gloom on one game... ONE.

all I’m trying to point out is that it might be sensible to not dramatise a FRIENDLY result as the end of the season already when last week people were full of praise of the team in the same circumstance against far better opposition.

as you say, if people can be good one week that can be crap the next... that works both ways but as downtrodden vale fans we seem to have this fascination of focusing on the negative.

Im advocating a bit of balance.. you correct me if you don’t think that’s sensible! 

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No such thing as balance with some fans. A player who has a great game one week is a world beater and a mistake from them the next week makes them non league. There’s almost no in between. We will get inconsistency, it’s league 2. Honestly I sit there some weeks and feel like some fans just don’t know what they’re on about, booing for back passes and a misplaced pass. Then booing that same player for going forward instead and giving it away or losing it. I think Vale is a tough crowd. 

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3 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

I completely agree.

It looks to me like the same mistakes that happened with recruitment last season have been made again. Lack of quality and a lot of chancers especially if this lad hurst signs as well. As you say we’re weak at left back and I agree about the midfield and have been saying it for some time. We look very weak there, I’m not convinced by Joyce at all and Conlon for me seems way overrated on here. Manny is our class player along with brown but as we saw last season struggles with injury so I’m surprised we’ve not strengthened there.

For me it looks like we’ve done what we did under brown and aspin yet again and that’s quantity over quality. Only 2 players that have signed will probably start on Saturday and I don’t believe that’s enough given how poor we were last season. Too many back up players who may turn good but equally could end up the same as the many squad players that barely played over the last few seasons. 

I think askey wants another forward so hopefully that will solve that. Cullen and pope is a good strike force not convinced from what I saw bennet yesterday but harsh to judge so early. 

I think we will struggle as will and some on here seem to have accepted this as being ok. I do think askey is a decent manager in terms of his tactics and I was impressed by him at macc, not convinced by the recruitment as you say though. 

Do you think we are the only team in League Two who have signed some chancers though?! Pretty much every side in this league will have fans questioning half or even most of their signings I'm pretty sure.  Our best business of the summer could be keeping Brown and Oyeleke at the club. 

 

I felt last season we would have finished near midtable had we had just a competent manager in charge and not Neil Aspin for the majority of it. Now that you add Amoo and Cullen at the very least to the starting 11 along with having a manager that knows which end of the toothbrush to hold when he brushes his teeth at night, there's no reason we can't finish top half with a bit of luck, which is something anyone with a bit of realism would take after the shower during the last couple of years. 

Edited by TylerB
typo

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13 hours ago, Playa Amodores said:

 The person I sat next to said he fears going to Layer Road next week,

Not surprised he fears it.  Colchester don't player there any more so he'll miss the match!!

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The problem we have had with recruitment is the fact that we didn't start in time.  Ask any manager/CEO and they will tell you that preliminary investigations about players and their availability starts in January.  Askey wasn't in post then.  We had an owner who had no interest in the club and a group of players, some of whom were behaving very unprofessionally.  We've started on the back foot and have been playing catch up.

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13 hours ago, Frank Mustard said:

Pre-season friendly or not that was a very troubling ninty minutes.

Christ. You're definitely one of them that would have been tipping us as the new Invincibles had we won yesterday by a few goals...

Our attitude was poor for half of the game and because of that we lost to a side who had a bit more motivation on the day. Big deal. 

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7 minutes ago, TylerB said:

Do you think we are the only team in League Two who have signed some chancers though?! Pretty much every side in this league will have fans questioning half or even most of their signings I'm pretty sure.  Our best business of the summer could be keeping Brown and Oyeleke at the club. 

 

I felt last season we would have finished near midtable had we had just a competent manager in charge and not Neil Aspin for the majority of it. Now that you add Amoo and Cullen at the very least to the starting 11 along with having a manager that knows which end of the toothbrush to hold when he brushes his teeth at night, there's no reason we can't finish top half with a bit of luck, which is something anyone with a bit of realism would take after the shower during the last couple of years. 

We sign chancers every year who have for the majoriry have flopped. But it seems ok for us to that this season..:

 

top half id be happy with personally don’t see enough in the midfield yet. 

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1 hour ago, DistantVale said:

 I think the jury is out as to whether we have strengthened anywhere only the results in the first few games will prove if we have or we haven't !  

If you're not at least a little optimistic that Cullen, Amoo, Browne and Bennett are an improvement on what we had up top and out wide last season you need to seek help. 

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6 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

We sign chancers every year who have for the majoriry have flopped. But it seems ok for us to that this season..:

 

top half id be happy with personally don’t see enough in the midfield yet. 

I completely agree about the midfield, unless Oyeleke can play 40 games. But my point is that realistically we were always going to sign a lot of players this summer and many of them would be questionable if you judge them on previous stats. But Cullen and Amoo are good players for this league. Retaining Brown who is arguably the best goalkeeper in League Two and Oyeleke, who has tha talent to play higher and now just needs a bit of luck on the injury front, and I don't see why some people are so doom and gloom. Yes, a midfielder who has proven he can chip in with goals and a centre back with more pedigree than Keiran Kennedy would have been smashing. But that was always unlikely to happen, and as I said, even those tipped to do well this season will have signed players that will have their supporters scratching their heads a bit. 

Edited by TylerB
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1 minute ago, valiant_593 said:

We sign chancers every year who have for the majoriry have flopped. But it seems ok for us to that this season..:

 

top half id be happy with personally don’t see enough in the midfield yet. 

I wouldn’t call Amoo, Bennett and Cullen chancers.

i think the rest are squad players who are cheaper in order for us to balance the budget and afford those players... as well as Browns new contract!!

they are less of a “chance” given the manager has worked with them before... rather than people like hardcastle that no one knew from Adam!

wpuld I prefer we sign a proven young hungry player who tore league 2 up last year... yes. Can we afford them, no.

i really really don’t see how people are struggling to get this concept.

when asked to provide alternatives all I have heard is Charlie Adam, Mark Marshall and Nathan Tyson!!!!

Two we couldn’t afford if we wanted to and the other is terrible.

Certain people couldn’t wait for a poor friendly result... you could sense their desperation to have a go! It baffles me.

 

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4 minutes ago, TylerB said:

If you're not at least a little optimistic that Cullen, Amoo, Browne and Bennett are an improvement on what we had up top and out wide last season you need to seek help. 

The world is full of glass half full and half empty people. Stoke in general and Vale Park in particular have a disproportionate number of the latter. If you can't be optimistic in July and August there's not much joy for most football supporters. Think we've got a lot more upfront this year but time will tell.

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45 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

The point is that people have started basing this doom and gloom on one game... ONE.

all I’m trying to point out is that it might be sensible to not dramatise a FRIENDLY result as the end of the season already when last week people were full of praise of the team in the same circumstance against far better opposition.

as you say, if people can be good one week that can be crap the next... that works both ways but as downtrodden vale fans we seem to have this fascination of focusing on the negative.

Im advocating a bit of balance.. you correct me if you don’t think that’s sensible! 

I wholeheartedly agree! 

But people are entitled to their opinion. Be that positive or negative or something in between.

But as Carol her self has said; Vale fans has been treated like crap of the pitch and treated to crap on the pitch, for the past 3 years. It takes more than 2 months to turn most peoples minds around! 

Having followed this forum for a long time, we have to be careful and accept, that people can still ask questions and have opinions, that asks questions to and of the club. I know they have a hell of a lot of things to put right, but that doesn't mean people can ask questions that are not overly positive. 

Because the club can still be expected get the very basics right, like announcing which sizes of shirts are available, so people don't make a 3 hour journey in vain. That is so simple to do, yet didn't get done. And you know what: I would have been well pissed my self, if I had driven 3 hours, just to be told "sorry, that size is not in yet". But instead of people offering a bit of understanding, he got shot down like you wouldn't believe. Which just adds to this, I in lack of better words, call a bit of a 'cult'. You are either 100% behind or 100% against, the new owners. No other argument is being accepted!

And by the way; I AM behind them! Would I travel from Denmark to Colchester next week, if I wasn't? I just think, people are allowed nuances.

And I'm just starting to wonder, because at some point the 'it's all because of Norman' excuse becomes void. And what happens then? We are not at that point yet, by any means, but we will be there next summer.

Edited by Danish Valiant

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1 hour ago, JRC said:

I'm not sure we'll be bringing many in on loan unless we have a couple of injuries in a particular position.

Agree. I've got the impression from Askey's comments recently that the squad would be completed by either signing any of the triallists that he wanted, or if not, he would then look at loans to top it up.

As he's since signed Evans & Browne, and both Maddison & Hurst were on the bench yesterday (insinuating that they will also be signed) then I reckon the squad is now complete, and we will only bring in loans in the event of a) lengthy injuries or b) a piss-poor set of results before the transfer window shuts on 2nd September.

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What people should remember, some people anyway, is that we are a League Two side, and we haven't been a great one at at that for a while now. We'll have games where we look half decent and then the following week we might look more like the Renford Rejects. It's as much if not more about application, attitude and organisation than quality. We had a good attitude against Premier League side Burnley and for 60 minutes or so we matched them. Against Bury the players that started were no doubt more concerned about not getting injured on the dawn of the new season and they got turned over. Almost every League Two side will have a couple or a few good players and the rest will be an average at best bunch who at times look like they are almost stealing a living as professional footballers. That's League Two football. 

Edited by TylerB
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27 minutes ago, TylerB said:

Our best business of the summer could be keeping Brown and Oyeleke at the club.

Couldn't agree more - and add Worrall too. The extension for those three was superb news, closely followed by the additions of Amoo & Cullen.

The other potentially crucial 'signing' was that of a full-time physio - if he can keep those vital players fit that are aging and/or injury-prone (Pope, Oyeleke, Cullen, Legge, *) then Chris Banks will have a far bigger impact than he ever did as a player!

(*......I would have included Montano but that would require working miracles!)

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The slightly odd thing for me is that we seem to have amassed a much better array of attacking talent but in comparison neglected the rest of the team. We've now got Amoo, Cullen, Bennett, Pope, Montano, Worall, Browne - anyone else? - competing for 3(4) places maximum but when you analyse the midfield and back four it doesn't look anywhere near as strong in depth.

 We'll find out soon enough. Colchester is a huge challenge as they'll bombard us.They were probably the biggest and physically strongest team we played last year so strap yourselves in for a ride.

Hopefully Askey knows a bit more about football than me - or we'd probably be in the Ansells Sunday League by now!

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