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Match thread: Port Vale v Bury


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5 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Got to give it 'til the end of September before making a judgement but I'm underwhelmed by the recruitment this summer. We have a tough start just hope we don't get some maulings 'cause it could set the tone for the season.

Vale appear to have strengthened up top but center of midfield, center of defense and left back look a tad weak and lacking in decent cover. I hope I'm wrong.

 I think the jury is out as to whether we have strengthened anywhere only the results in the first few games will prove if we have or we haven't !  

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37 minutes ago, Wrex said:

Let's hope we can turn up 1 or 2 decent loan players that can actually improve the first team rather than the usual 5 or 6 who struggle to make the bench.

The problem with the loan market is you get what you pay for. The best under 23 players you might end up paying 90% of salary plus accommodation which is way beyond our top paid player. At the real gamble, bottom end, you can end up basically just paying for accommodation. I'm not sure we'll be bringing many in on loan unless we have a couple of injuries in a particular position. I think part of the Notts Forest day was that it's commutable for loan signings so we can save a bit on accommodation. Premier League and Championship clubs will try to squeeze every penny they can from a club trying to take a player on loan.

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Friendlies mean nothing, last weekend we were excellent against a decent Premier League outfit until making big changes, days before beat a decent Fleetwood side.

Don’t judge anything off friendlies at all. I expected promotion in 2007/08 after wiping the floor with United and Sheffield Weds 3-0! We went down easily.

I don’t think we will go down. We’ve got the squad from last season in terms of strongest XI pretty much that stayed up comfortably in the end, added some goals (Miller’s 4 goals I think were the only striker goals bar Pope?) Cullen if fit should get double figures easily and Bennett for 6 or 7 when out of favour at Carlisle for part of the season. Added in the pace we lack in Amoo and Browne and not having 6 months of Uber negative set ups from Aspin and things not right in the dressing room and off the field and things look much better.

No excuse this side should finish well away from
Danger. Upper mid table is achievable.

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21 minutes ago, Seamus O'Wye said:

Agreed. No loan player should be signed if he is not good enough to go straight into the first team. No ifs, no buts. A waste of our limited financial resources if he is just going to sit on the bench or not even make the matchday squad. We already have enough "squad players" to do that.

I'd agree with that. I don't think the loan players last year cost us much in terms of a wage contribution, but add on traveling costs and hotels they contributed little for every pound they did cost. I've reconciled myself to Lloyd because I looked at the dross we had on loan and we won't have to pay board and travel; so he possibly does represent decent value for money.

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The quantity over quality argument just isn’t there. We’ve only got 25 players signed. Under aspin and Brown we were mid 30s, maybe even pushing 40 in numbers once we added in loans. 

 

Brown

 

Gibbons

Evans

Legge

Smith

Kennedy

Rawlinson

Crookes

Campbell Gordon *

 

Joyce

Manny

Conlon

Burgess

Trickett Smith

Lloyd

Berks*

Green birch *

 

Whitfield *

Worrall

Monty

Amoo

Pope

Cullen

Brown

Bennett

 

Have I missed anyone?

 

*Of those 25 players, 3 of them are first year pros and 1 is not wanted and will probably not feature. So realistically we’ve got a squad of 21 players that will be utilised in the first game. (22 once a keeper signs).

 

The squads of the last couple of seasons got out of hand with the addition of the loan players. To a point where we had too many of them to even be able to feature them all in the matchday squads. Many of those weren’t good enough to get in to the starting 11. 

 

Going back on to the topic of what’s changed behind the scenes even though we virtually the same starting 11 as last year. The backroom set up is totally different in terms of the preparation and also very importantly the type of training they are doing and even the basic game plan. Aspin did not take training, he only went to work with the starting 11 on team shape on a Thursday and Friday. The weekly training was lead by Nogan, I heard rumours that the stuff they were doing was too basic and a step backwards. Plus it’s plain to see our main gameplan under Aspin was to try and keep it tight and hope to pick up second balls off Pope. Since Askey and Kevan have come in it supposedly been much better in the drills and patterns of play they’ve been doing. Also Aspin got rid of the GPS, this is back in now, it’s a great way to be able to see what a player is doing and how to improve maybe small percentages of their game. Opposition analysis was not done by Aspin until the last couple of months of his reign. We genuinely had no clue what the opposition would be doing in many games. Also let’s not rule out the Norman factor, the facilities and training / game preparation were lacking to help the players. This has all been improved now from the daily meals to facilities around the ground and the travel to away games too. We don’t yet know how all of this will affect our final points tally, it may only make a small difference, but I think Askey needs a preseason (which he’s had with the players) and he needs a full season and more than just one window. It’s going to be slow going to turn around I think.

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10 hours ago, CAVALIER said:

Sorry, some great excuses on here but we were beaten fair and square by a team who are bust, had no players 2 weeks ago and could have won by more.

If their triallists are that could with naff all team building etc then we should have them rather than ex Macc players.

Hope I’m wrong but it’s going to be tough 

Your thoughts on the Burnley game?

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4 minutes ago, Iron Curtain said:

Your thoughts on the Burnley game?

What does that have to do with the Bury game? 

It's just "whataboutism"... 

Because someone does great one time, does that equal they can't be crap next time?

As far as I can read, Cavalier commented his thoughts on the Bury game, not the Burnley game. Please correct me (anyone of you), if I'm mistaken?

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1 minute ago, Danish Valiant said:

What does that have to do with the Bury game? 

It's just "whataboutism"... 

Because someone does great one time, does that equal they can't be crap next time?

As far as I can read, Cavalier commented his thoughts on the Bury game, not the Burnley game. Please correct me (anyone of you), if I'm mistaken?

The point is that people have started basing this doom and gloom on one game... ONE.

all I’m trying to point out is that it might be sensible to not dramatise a FRIENDLY result as the end of the season already when last week people were full of praise of the team in the same circumstance against far better opposition.

as you say, if people can be good one week that can be crap the next... that works both ways but as downtrodden vale fans we seem to have this fascination of focusing on the negative.

Im advocating a bit of balance.. you correct me if you don’t think that’s sensible! 

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No such thing as balance with some fans. A player who has a great game one week is a world beater and a mistake from them the next week makes them non league. There’s almost no in between. We will get inconsistency, it’s league 2. Honestly I sit there some weeks and feel like some fans just don’t know what they’re on about, booing for back passes and a misplaced pass. Then booing that same player for going forward instead and giving it away or losing it. I think Vale is a tough crowd. 

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3 hours ago, valiant_593 said:

I completely agree.

It looks to me like the same mistakes that happened with recruitment last season have been made again. Lack of quality and a lot of chancers especially if this lad hurst signs as well. As you say we’re weak at left back and I agree about the midfield and have been saying it for some time. We look very weak there, I’m not convinced by Joyce at all and Conlon for me seems way overrated on here. Manny is our class player along with brown but as we saw last season struggles with injury so I’m surprised we’ve not strengthened there.

For me it looks like we’ve done what we did under brown and aspin yet again and that’s quantity over quality. Only 2 players that have signed will probably start on Saturday and I don’t believe that’s enough given how poor we were last season. Too many back up players who may turn good but equally could end up the same as the many squad players that barely played over the last few seasons. 

I think askey wants another forward so hopefully that will solve that. Cullen and pope is a good strike force not convinced from what I saw bennet yesterday but harsh to judge so early. 

I think we will struggle as will and some on here seem to have accepted this as being ok. I do think askey is a decent manager in terms of his tactics and I was impressed by him at macc, not convinced by the recruitment as you say though. 

Do you think we are the only team in League Two who have signed some chancers though?! Pretty much every side in this league will have fans questioning half or even most of their signings I'm pretty sure.  Our best business of the summer could be keeping Brown and Oyeleke at the club. 

 

I felt last season we would have finished near midtable had we had just a competent manager in charge and not Neil Aspin for the majority of it. Now that you add Amoo and Cullen at the very least to the starting 11 along with having a manager that knows which end of the toothbrush to hold when he brushes his teeth at night, there's no reason we can't finish top half with a bit of luck, which is something anyone with a bit of realism would take after the shower during the last couple of years. 

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The problem we have had with recruitment is the fact that we didn't start in time.  Ask any manager/CEO and they will tell you that preliminary investigations about players and their availability starts in January.  Askey wasn't in post then.  We had an owner who had no interest in the club and a group of players, some of whom were behaving very unprofessionally.  We've started on the back foot and have been playing catch up.

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13 hours ago, Frank Mustard said:

Pre-season friendly or not that was a very troubling ninty minutes.

Christ. You're definitely one of them that would have been tipping us as the new Invincibles had we won yesterday by a few goals...

Our attitude was poor for half of the game and because of that we lost to a side who had a bit more motivation on the day. Big deal. 

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7 minutes ago, TylerB said:

Do you think we are the only team in League Two who have signed some chancers though?! Pretty much every side in this league will have fans questioning half or even most of their signings I'm pretty sure.  Our best business of the summer could be keeping Brown and Oyeleke at the club. 

 

I felt last season we would have finished near midtable had we had just a competent manager in charge and not Neil Aspin for the majority of it. Now that you add Amoo and Cullen at the very least to the starting 11 along with having a manager that knows which end of the toothbrush to hold when he brushes his teeth at night, there's no reason we can't finish top half with a bit of luck, which is something anyone with a bit of realism would take after the shower during the last couple of years. 

We sign chancers every year who have for the majoriry have flopped. But it seems ok for us to that this season..:

 

top half id be happy with personally don’t see enough in the midfield yet. 

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