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Boris Johnson is the new Prime Minister


mr.hobblesworth

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3 hours ago, For Us All said:

Make your own mind up?

Leftie Canary editor Kerry-Anne Mendoza on Twitter "Someone from a minority group who chooses to serve in a far-right government is no longer a person of colour.They are a turncoat of colour.It's one thing to opt out of fighting oppression,quite another to legitimise it with your own skin".

Leftie Ash Sarkar of Novara Media on Twitter "The ascendance of Priti Patel and Sajid Javid to positions of power is only a sign of progress if you see tokenism itself as progressive".

And finally, Shadow Treasury Minister Clive Lewis MP on Twitter with a message to James Cleverly MP "Genuine congratulations James.I mean it.I'm just sorry you & the other black members of that cabinet had to sell your souls & self-respect to get there.You serve under a racist PM and sit next to a minister for equalities previously fired for the #Windrush scandal"

 

Don't particularly agree with the Mendoza quote, agree wholeheartedly with Clive Lewis and am in two minds about Ash's quote, although the full quote does paint her in a slightly more favourable light.

 

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19 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

And the other side of the coin is that we are also sheltered from better value deals?

95% of UK businesses do zero trade with the EU but are subject to the strict and substanstial EU regulations.

Name some, give some facts.....you won't'cause you don't have any.

44% of UK exports go to the EU, what are you talking about businesses like Mt Whippy or the corner shop.

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9 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Polls stating current views are a completely different beast to those which seek to predict or suggest the outcome of a nationwide vote at some unspecified point in the future. If there was a poll suggesting what would happen if there was another referendum, I'd be 'polls schmolls' but if there was one stating that an overwhelming majority of leave voters were self-confessed chronic masturbators or that most remain voters were smug and supercilious, I wouldn't have much of a problem with that.

Polls are crap full stop....... useful propaganda to try to prove a point, increase circulation, boost an ego or to make suggestions in support of other claims.... far to much weight is put on the poll results..... but then it would be a difficult results night without something to break the inane drivel spouted by the guests..... because we know before the result that everyone has won, or no one has lost, except the opposing party....., it could have been worse.... it could have been better.... the swing could have been better, or worse.... significant gains have been made even if we lost..... everyone worked really hard..... the door to door canvassing showed us, something..... every party is on the way up from where they were before the vote etc etc..... we need the odd swingometer and poll to break the monotony and justify the huge salaries for sitting on their ass flapping their lips.

Asking 1,000 Labour members, or any party, what they think of something is only usefull if they all tell the truth, the pollsters don't make a mistake and there are only 1,000 members....... even then it won't be 100% accurate. 

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3 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Name some, give some facts.....you won't'cause you don't have any.

44% of UK exports go to the EU, what are you talking about businesses like Mt Whippy or the corner shop.

Paul I've literally always got evidence. It's kind of my thing. You must be confusing me with a remainer.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36029211

 

I accept your apology.

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Context is everything. 

There is no debating that most of our exports and imports go to and from the EU. The EU is our biggest market. It's worth hundreds and hundreds of billions to us. 3 million jobs are linked to the EU. Foreign companies - like 1000 Japanese firms - came here because we're in the EU, not for the weather. Our biggest exporters, car manufacturers, need free access to the EU market. That's why Vauxhall's owner only today is threatening to shut Ellesmere Port if they don't get EU access. Trying to argue that EU trade is unimportant makes you look silly. 

On the other hand, it is equally true that most businesses don't trade with the EU. Of course they don't. Tell us something we don't know.They don't trade overseas with anyone. The corner shop, my hairdresser, the ice cream van, gardeners, hotels, none of them trade with anyone overseas. So what you say is correct but a complete red herring.

Anyway, back on thread, I found it mildly amusing that Johnson is off to Scotland to spend more of his uncosted promises, and meeting Davidson who has told him where he can stick his No Deal fantasy. But the other thing that struck me was when he said this," We are a global brand, and together we are safer, stronger and more prosperous." He was talking about the UK which he is now putting at risk but it's amazing how he mentions together being safer and stronger but that it doesn't apply to the EU. He'll probably say something else tomorrow. Let's hope someone chucks a haggis at him. 😉

 

 

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5 minutes ago, TheSage said:

Context is everything. 

There is no debating that most of our exports and imports go to and from the EU. The EU is our biggest market. It's worth hundreds and hundreds of billions to us. 3 million jobs are linked to the EU. Foreign companies - like 1000 Japanese firms - came here because we're in the EU, not for the weather. Our biggest exporters, car manufacturers, need free access to the EU market. That's why Vauxhall's owner only today is threatening to shut Ellesmere Port if they don't get EU access. Trying to argue that EU trade is unimportant makes you look silly. 

On the other hand, it is equally true that most businesses don't trade with the EU. Of course they don't. Tell us something we don't know.They don't trade overseas with anyone. The corner shop, my hairdresser, the ice cream van, gardeners, hotels, none of them trade with anyone overseas. So what you say is correct but a complete red herring.

Anyway, back on thread, I found it mildly amusing that Johnson is off to Scotland to spend more of his uncosted promises, and meeting Davidson who has told him where he can stick his No Deal fantasy. But the other thing that struck me was when he said this," We are a global brand, and together we are safer, stronger and more prosperous." He was talking about the UK which he is now putting at risk but it's amazing how he mentions together being safer and stronger but that it doesn't apply to the EU. He'll probably say something else tomorrow. Let's hope someone chucks a haggis at him. 😉

 

 

The Crash out Brigade just cant see it, of course a big proportion  of our external trade is with our neighbours built up since the 50s, trade with the rest of the world is already in place and growing, so throw it all in the air and start afresh. Meanwhile the War Cabinet are launching a massive propaganda exercise, at tax payers expense, because too many still think it is a crazy idea, Talk about fear tactics it is terrifying. 

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7 hours ago, TheSage said:

Context is everything. 

There is no debating that most of our exports and imports go to and from the EU. The EU is our biggest market. It's worth hundreds and hundreds of billions to us. 3 million jobs are linked to the EU. Foreign companies - like 1000 Japanese firms - came here because we're in the EU, not for the weather. Our biggest exporters, car manufacturers, need free access to the EU market. That's why Vauxhall's owner only today is threatening to shut Ellesmere Port if they don't get EU access. Trying to argue that EU trade is unimportant makes you look silly. 

On the other hand, it is equally true that most businesses don't trade with the EU. Of course they don't. Tell us something we don't know.They don't trade overseas with anyone. The corner shop, my hairdresser, the ice cream van, gardeners, hotels, none of them trade with anyone overseas. So what you say is correct but a complete red herring.

Anyway, back on thread, I found it mildly amusing that Johnson is off to Scotland to spend more of his uncosted promises, and meeting Davidson who has told him where he can stick his No Deal fantasy. But the other thing that struck me was when he said this," We are a global brand, and together we are safer, stronger and more prosperous." He was talking about the UK which he is now putting at risk but it's amazing how he mentions together being safer and stronger but that it doesn't apply to the EU. He'll probably say something else tomorrow. Let's hope someone chucks a haggis at him. 😉

 

 

It's not a red herring though. It's completely relevant. 95% of uk businesses have to comply with EU regulation despite not benefitting from EU trade. There will be a cost to almost every single one of those businesses in complying with those regulations.

And it's amazing to see you comparing an actual country to a political union supposedly focused on the economy and trade. The truth is the EU wants to become a super state and I think you know that.

 

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13 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Paul I've literally always got evidence. It's kind of my thing. You must be confusing me with a remainer.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36029211

 

I accept your apology.

Regal, You usually don't have evidence and on the odd occasion you do the evidence you produce is wishy washy. Point in case is the article you post which even the author says "It looks in this case as though one side or the other, or possibly both, has been too conservative". Also it is unclear in that article if/how many  service companies are included as 80% of the UK economy is service based and the UK is the 2nd largest (2nd to the USA) exporter of services to the world.

As for the quote in the post above, "95% of UK businesses do zero trade with the EU but are subject to the strict and substantial EU regulations", apart from the the 95% being incorrect the "Strict and substantial EU regulations" are almost always sensible and in the best interests of the British people and when/if the UK does leave many if not all will be adopted by the UK. Also other non-EU countries will have standards and regulations that must be met so there's no getting away from this by just leaving the EU. 

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16 hours ago, geosname said:

Don't knock the corner shop or small businesses mate

Didn't mean to knock the corner shop or small businesses Geo, they provide many jobs and hence taxes to the country and as such are a very valuable part of the UK economy..

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10 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

Regal, You usually don't have evidence and on the odd occasion you do the evidence you produce is wishy washy. Point in case is the article you post which even the author says "It looks in this case as though one side or the other, or possibly both, has been too conservative". Also it is unclear in that article if/how many  service companies are included as 80% of the UK economy is service based and the UK is the 2nd largest (2nd to the USA) exporter of services to the world.

As for the quote in the post above, "95% of UK businesses do zero trade with the EU but are subject to the strict and substantial EU regulations", apart from the the 95% being incorrect the "Strict and substantial EU regulations" are almost always sensible and in the best interests of the British people and when/if the UK does leave many if not all will be adopted by the UK. Also other non-EU countries will have standards and regulations that must be met so there's no getting away from this by just leaving the EU. 

Aston University did an analysis of the impact of EU regulations on the UK market and concluded that overall it was very positive, not withstanding the obvious point that too much red tape can weigh down business and constrain them. But they get red tape from our own government and as Paul says you would have to fit in with other countries' regulations. It's costly to trade outside the EU, very costly.

Getting back to this academic study. It's not biased. It's done by university academics researching the effect of regulations on the UK. Journal of Social Policy vol 46 if you want to read it! What did they conclude?

Well, as they rightly say, context is all important. You can't take the cost on its own without looking at the benefits on the other side of the coin. Leavers claimed it was costing businesses over £33 billion a year but their conclusion was that their argument was only looking at costs and not at benefits so it was an unfair figure. For example, a DEFRA-commissioned study projected that air quality policies introduced by the EU between 1990 and 2001 affecting transport and electricity generation reduced premature deaths by 6,857, and saved between 81,601 to 244,803 life years, in 2010 alone.

They heavily criticised Vote Leave's methodology and pointed out that the health and welfare benefits were often intangible and certainly meant less time off for sickness. But regulations like paternity leave, maximum working hours, paid holiday time, pensions, will affect employers but I would have thought were only right and proper in 2019. Maybe the cat is out of the bag and what leavers want is deregulation and a worsening of workers' conditions?

The CBI believes that overall the costs outweigh the benefits and the study also points out that UK regulations are often stricter than EU ones!  So there are costs, most of them imposed by the UK, but as ever RB has taken the data out of context and looked only at one side of the equation, costs, without examining the benefits. Context is all important.  

 

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13 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

It's not a red herring though. It's completely relevant. 95% of uk businesses have to comply with EU regulation despite not benefitting from EU trade. There will be a cost to almost every single one of those businesses in complying with those regulations.

And it's amazing to see you comparing an actual country to a political union supposedly focused on the economy and trade. The truth is the EU wants to become a super state and I think you know that.

 

As I read it - the main hurdle to becoming a 'Super State' is France and Germany; both will want to be boss cocky. On top of which, in my opinion, Russia will be very unhappy with a Super State as a next door neighbour. Then there is China, using the tried and true British Empire model of economic hegemony it is slowly planting it's flag and dominance across the planet.  

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10 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

Regal, You usually don't have evidence and on the odd occasion you do the evidence you produce is wishy washy. Point in case is the article you post which even the author says "It looks in this case as though one side or the other, or possibly both, has been too conservative". Also it is unclear in that article if/how many  service companies are included as 80% of the UK economy is service based and the UK is the 2nd largest (2nd to the USA) exporter of services to the world.

As for the quote in the post above, "95% of UK businesses do zero trade with the EU but are subject to the strict and substantial EU regulations", apart from the the 95% being incorrect the "Strict and substantial EU regulations" are almost always sensible and in the best interests of the British people and when/if the UK does leave many if not all will be adopted by the UK. Also other non-EU countries will have standards and regulations that must be met so there's no getting away from this by just leaving the EU. 

Do you know what being too conservative is? 

What other wishy washy evidence have I posted? The official findings of the high court? The official ecj website? The office eu budget? 

You've made that up Paul.

And I specifically picked a bbc link because I know it will be remain biased. It still backs up my point. 

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