NHS The sinking flagship

[mr.hobblesworth]

It would also need a cross-party approach and, unfortunately, I can't see that ever happening. Having said that, things are looking up as I'm led to believe we'll be spending an extra £350,000,000 a week on it as soon as we leave the EU.

[geosname]

It would also need a cross-party approach and, unfortunately, I can't see that ever happening. Having said that, things are looking up as I'm led to believe we'll be spending an extra £350,000,000 a week on it as soon as we leave the EU.

 

350,000,000 would buy more plasters and bandages to hold it together but I doubt it would improve it.

From the cradle to the grave should be just that.

Everything under one umbrella.....

[Fosse69]

Not sure what the answer is but any Government can throw as much money at it as they can and it will still be under funded and struggle. It needs a big reform/ restructure but it will take a brave Government to take that risk.

 

Newspaper report this morning of 100,000 vacancies but I assume that includes social services as well, nurse training has taken a nosedive, EU staff not so interested in working here now, 30,000 additional foreign nurses cancelled. Simple finance is £ 4% p.a. growth in real terms, as averaged pre 2010, cuts cannot improve anything due to age profile of post war baby boom.

[Heatwave]

More efficiency less waste for me.

 

Pouring money into it will delay the problems not solve them.

 

Tell you what RB, come to work with me at the Royal Stoke and you can point out to me where all these so called wastes and inefficiencies are.

 

I tell you what, there is no sector that has been more effectively policed than the public sector in general and the NHS in particular. If there was any fat in the system - and I'm not naive enough to assume there wasn't - then it's long gone. The major costs after those of staff (and I hope you'll agree with me that they're worth what they're paid) are for drugs, over which the NHS has no control. That's down to market forces but I'm sure you'll understand how that works don't you?

 

It's very easy for the uninformed to have a go at public sector organisations. Don't join them.

[geosname]

Talking of drugs.. and prices.

 

Warfarin here costs £2 for a months supply

Flecanide acetate £5

Omeprazole £2

 

Paracetamol £1.20 per 100

 

The above are retail prices..... not wholesale or direct from the manufacturer... all imported from Europe.

 

I'm guessing each item on a scrip is about £9? now.

 

If the NHS isn't getting cheaper something is wrong...... I know it's not that simple.

 

Why not set up a nationalised dispenser..... take it out of the hands of pharmacies.

[philpvfc]

Correct, nationalise a supplier and start producing our own medicines etc.

I would like to see larger companies contributing more similar to company pensions, tax relief can be offered.

[Heatwave]

Correct, nationalise a supplier and start producing our own medicines etc.

I would like to see larger companies contributing more similar to company pensions, tax relief can be offered.

 

Even if the political will was there a raft of patents and the laws that support them prevent duplication of any recent drug. For that reason alone it's a non starter.

[Warren]

Had three operations, radiotherapy and a multitude of diagnostic scans in the last year. Seems to do a good job to me. On the other hand my son, who is a doctor, knows he and many of his colleagues are thinking of walking away from the profession because there is too much pressure and no sign of it ending.

[Regal Beagle]

Tell you what RB, come to work with me at the Royal Stoke and you can point out to me where all these so called wastes and inefficiencies are.

 

I tell you what, there is no sector that has been more effectively policed than the public sector in general and the NHS in particular. If there was any fat in the system - and I'm not naive enough to assume there wasn't - then it's long gone. The major costs after those of staff (and I hope you'll agree with me that they're worth what they're paid) are for drugs, over which the NHS has no control. That's down to market forces but I'm sure you'll understand how that works don't you?

 

It's very easy for the uninformed to have a go at public sector organisations. Don't join them.

 

Wow what have I done to you?

 

Here's a quote from your employers official website though: "it is also the case that there are still substantial opportunities to cut waste and increase efficiency in the NHS"

 

Don't worry about it.

[Regal Beagle]

Talking of drugs.. and prices.

 

Warfarin here costs £2 for a months supply

Flecanide acetate £5

Omeprazole £2

 

Paracetamol £1.20 per 100

 

The above are retail prices..... not wholesale or direct from the manufacturer... all imported from Europe.

 

I'm guessing each item on a scrip is about £9? now.

 

If the NHS isn't getting cheaper something is wrong...... I know it's not that simple.

 

Why not set up a nationalised dispenser..... take it out of the hands of pharmacies.

 

Maybe there would be some way of us getting some sort of trade deal with countries outside of the EU for this sort of stuff?

 

Just spitballing ideas here.

[Fosse69]

Correct, nationalise a supplier and start producing our own medicines etc.

I would like to see larger companies contributing more similar to company pensions, tax relief can be offered.

 

Centralised purchasing would surely have more negotiating power to bring prices down. Don't know whether it is true or not that contracting out can mean costs of £300 to change a light bulb, or is it a Boris banana story?

[Paul6754]

Talking of drugs.. and prices.

 

Warfarin here costs £2 for a months supply

Flecanide acetate £5

Omeprazole £2

 

Paracetamol £1.20 per 100

 

The above are retail prices..... not wholesale or direct from the manufacturer... all imported from Europe.

 

I'm guessing each item on a scrip is about £9? now.

 

If the NHS isn't getting cheaper something is wrong...... I know it's not that simple.

 

Why not set up a nationalised dispenser..... take it out of the hands of pharmacies.

 

Geo, Those drugs are cheap 'cause they're Generic and off patent and some may be over the counter, the drugs that cost the big bucks are those still covered by patent, many of the new cancer drugs and the biologics.

 

Interestingly we pay more for drugs in the USA compared to Canada (and probably the UK) 'cause Canada (and the UK/NHS)represent more customers hence have more bargaining power compared to the fractured market represented by the many health insurance companies in the USA.

[pjg1876]

Tell you what RB, come to work with me at the Royal Stoke and you can point out to me where all these so called wastes and inefficiencies are.

 

I tell you what, there is no sector that has been more effectively policed than the public sector in general and the NHS in particular. If there was any fat in the system - and I'm not naive enough to assume there wasn't - then it's long gone. The major costs after those of staff (and I hope you'll agree with me that they're worth what they're paid) are for drugs, over which the NHS has no control. That's down to market forces but I'm sure you'll understand how that works don't you?

 

It's very easy for the uninformed to have a go at public sector organisations. Don't join them.

 

I agree with you that the staff are worth what they are paid but I am not sure that there are no areas left where efficiencies cannot be made. I attend Derby hospital and see both reception staff and nurses who appear to be doing very little. For example one clinic I attend, I go through two reception areas before I get to see the consultant. Both reception areas have their own receptionist, one asks me my name and address, the next one my date of birth. Sure the NHS will say that the first one is streaming patients into the right clinics but are they necessary if we had correct signage. When I finally get to the clinic, there are several nurses who seem to spend 80% of the time chatting or showing patients the way out. I do think it is a difficult area to resolve as there are so many different hospitals but our experience is that the smaller ones such as Ilkeston are far more efficient than the larger ones such as Burton and Derby. Just my own experience.

[geosname]

Geo, Those drugs are cheap 'cause they're Generic and off patent and some may be over the counter, the drugs that cost the big bucks are those still covered by patent, many of the new cancer drugs and the biologics.

 

Interestingly we pay more for drugs in the USA compared to Canada (and probably the UK) 'cause Canada (and the UK/NHS)represent more customers hence have more bargaining power compared to the fractured market represented by the many health insurance companies in the USA.

 

Like I said mate..... it's not that easy

[Heatwave]

I agree with you that the staff are worth what they are paid but I am not sure that there are no areas left where efficiencies cannot be made. I attend Derby hospital and see both reception staff and nurses who appear to be doing very little. For example one clinic I attend, I go through two reception areas before I get to see the consultant. Both reception areas have their own receptionist, one asks me my name and address, the next one my date of birth. Sure the NHS will say that the first one is streaming patients into the right clinics but are they necessary if we had correct signage. When I finally get to the clinic, there are several nurses who seem to spend 80% of the time chatting or showing patients the way out. I do think it is a difficult area to resolve as there are so many different hospitals but our experience is that the smaller ones such as Ilkeston are far more efficient than the larger ones such as Burton and Derby. Just my own experience.

 

If I didn't know you were such a grumpy old git Phil I might have taken exception.

 

I obviously don't have your experiences but often there's a simple explanation of why things operate the way things operate; it might look to you like waste and inefficiency but, for example, what if the department concerned has 'humps' of work at certain times of the day? The staff levels are needed for when the humps occur, but what do you do with them the rest of the day? My guess is to provide extra patient support, escorting them, opening doors etc. Not saying that's what it is, just offering a possible explanation.