Bury

[Aussie Rules]

9 hours ago, JRC said:

The other point is although Dale comes across as a cretin the mountain of debt was not his doing. There were protests towards the end. In 2016 Bury were already at least 8 million in debt. By the time he took over it was probably more than double and I suspect that is a conservative estimate. Its hard to protest against a chairman for 16 million in debt someone else wracked up.

Which begs the following questions for me JRC:

• Why would anyone pay £1 to buy a multi million debt riddled football club?
• Was there some kind of 'Bowl of tossed salad and scrambled eggs' reasoning that gave rise to thinking it was a good deal?
• Or was it a just case of someone believing they would make some decent pelf in return - and sod the fans?

Whatever the reason it was, in my opinion, totally fruit-loop behaviour.

[Smugsy]

I think one of the answers to why Bury fans did not mobilise against the owner(s) sooner is because they were getting results on the pitch. To a lot of supporters that is all that matters and heads were buried in the sand about what was or wasn't happening behind the scenes.

[Tomo]

For me making comparisons with Vale is pointless, 2 completely different situations on & off the pitch. Only thing we have in common really is us having awful people as owners. Even the fan base is totally different.

A lot both in & out of the media have been saying how it's not up to PL millionaires to bail lower league clubs out (even though they refuse to support spreading money more equally throughout the leagues), & that owners can do what they like with their money, but this bloke suddenly thinking it was the right time for him to start spouting off really wound me up:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49495920

"I've obviously been living it...I find it difficult...I'm devastated."

It's been on the cards years, & having family member(s) at the club, he surely would have known about the issues to some degree. Didn't seem that fussed before when he helped join in ******* millions up the wall at some crap non-league club with no history down the road did he?

[The man in the pub]

Lets be honest the " Fit and proper persons test " has been proved to be worthless or at best the bar is set incredibly low. Having said that once the brown smelly stuff hit the fan with Bury the EFL suddenly seemed very diligent in applying it. Feel very sorry for genuine Bury fans and empathy as broadly speaking have historically  been a club similar to ourselves, floating around the lower leagues with more glamourous neighbours. As is common knowledge a few years ago they had a Chairman who really went for it signing the likes of Popey on wages that Bury couldn't sustain. Understand his plan was promotion to the Championship with all its riches, <ovf censored> or bust based on Wonga type loans. We all know how that ended and surely a warning to all who contemplate a similar path. As painful /heartless as it seems for the warning to carry real weight  maybe Bury have to fail, the ultimate deterrent.

We all want success for our club but what we need most are responsible owners who control a sustainable budget, sometimes as boring and lacking in thrills as that maybe. No one wants to be a rocket club, one that climbs rapidly finishing with a bang then disintegrating into pieces.

[Fosse69]

Quote

20 minutes ago, The man in the pub said:

Lets be honest the " Fit and proper persons test " has been proved to be worthless or at best the bar is set incredibly low. Having said that once the brown smelly stuff hit the fan with Bury the EFL suddenly seemed very diligent in applying it. Feel very sorry for genuine Bury fans and empathy as broadly speaking have historically  been a club similar to ourselves, floating around the lower leagues with more glamourous neighbours. As is common knowledge a few years ago they had a Chairman who really went for it signing the likes of Popey on wages that Bury couldn't sustain. Understand his plan was promotion to the Championship with all its riches, <ovf censored> or bust based on Wonga type loans. We all know how that ended and surely a warning to all who contemplate a similar path. As painful /heartless as it seems for the warning to carry real weight  maybe Bury have to fail, the ultimate deterrent.

We all want success for our club but what we need most are responsible owners who control a sustainable budget, sometimes as boring and lacking in thrills as that maybe. No one wants to be a rocket club, one that climbs rapidly finishing with a bang then disintegrating into pieces.

 

Should it not be a "Fit and proper club test"? The FL should have the power to check the funding and financial stability of the club so as to spot the warning signs before clubs run up such debts. Sources of loans like Bury incurred and hiding in tax havens are not for clubs in the FL. What happens in the Prem is for them to sort out, sort our own backyard out first, . Bolton`s problems arose by being in the Prem, a far different scale of finance.

[Fosse69]

A £7M bid has now arrived, will the EFL reconsider? 

[mattpvfc]

No they won't already on ssn

A £7M bid has now arrived, will the EFL reconsider? 

[LancyTony]

Bear with me, Guys...some of this I'm not 100% about but it will make some kind of sense!

As I understand it, once someone is installed as owner of one of our clubs, the EFL can't dictate to them how they run their business - it's their business to run well or badly. But, in at least one of the US sports, businesspeople don't buy a club/team and enter it into their League - they buy the franchise to run that team, the owner of which then has to maintain certain standards to keep hold of that franchise: wages have to be paid; health and safety in the stadium and concourse - and for the players - has to be in good order; and I'm pretty sure just those 2 conditions, over here, would prevent what we have seen over the last couple of decades across the Leagues?

Slightly off topic - sorry! I'm not sure Bolton even deserved to be rescued - it's not that long ago since one of the owners had to write-off...what...£170 million quid...and they seem to have been in ths mire ever since?

Thanks for persevering with me...and thank Goodness for Kevin and Carol!!!!! UTV VTID

 

 

[JRC]

21 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

You are missing the point.  Fans should have mobilised long before the debt ever got to that, like Vale fans did.

I've missed no point people demonstrated because there was a belief money was being taken out of the club and money wasn't being invested in the team with Bell, Bratt and Smurthwaite. Its the same at Newcastle, Blackpool etc. In the case of Bury there was never any indication Day in particular was taking money out. Dale may have wanted to but probably never got the chance. The problem was most, if not all, the money was mortgaged on club assets. If Smurthwaite had mortgaged the club, signed Mayor, O'Shea and Maynard last season there would have been no protests. Day was very plausible and sold a dream that he claimed he as a successful businessman could deliver. He also used the argument any current losses would be covered by future profits he would inevitably deliver. If the Shanahan's bought in 3 players on 4 grand a week tomorrow who would complain on here? Probably a similar number to Bury, a few but not enough to make a difference. If fans demonstrated when spending is too high for income ... the whole of The Championship would be in arms.

[Fosse69]

It cant be left to the fans to investigate the economics and financial stability of a club, it should be in the hands of the EFL as a requirement of membership, But getting the Chairmen to accept this is probably wishful thinking, not a simple majority though.

[JRC]

33 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

It cant be left to the fans to investigate the economics and financial stability of a club, it should be in the hands of the EFL as a requirement of membership, But getting the Chairmen to accept this is probably wishful thinking, not a simple majority though.

The EFL is owned by the clubs ... who are owned by the owners, so it's basically the club's who regulate themselves. There is an element of collective responsibility but the league agrees to do what the club's want it to.

[Jacko51]

I suspect what has happened to Bury this week may concentrate a few minds.

Also, I find it odd that our former owner, who complained bitterly about how much money he was having to put into Vale and how the fans were nasty to him, is constantly trying to buy another club.

It makes you wonder why unscrupulous people are attracted to football club ownership.  I have a couple of theories but posting them one here may be libellous!

[toyahw]

4 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

 

Also, I find it odd that our former owner, who complained bitterly about how much money he was having to put into Vale and how the fans were nasty to him, is constantly trying to buy another club.

 

He never put anything in. And left laughing all the way to the bank. Sickens me.  But at least we are thankfully rid of that  word which rhymes with punt. But like all bad smells, he'll linger.

[Jacko51]

2 minutes ago, toyahw said:

He never put anything in. And left laughing all the way to the bank. Sickens me.  But at least we are thankfully rid of that  word which rhymes with punt. But like all bad smells, he'll linger.

I said he complained about it, toyah, I didn't say he was doing it!!

[Fosse69]

19 minutes ago, JRC said:

The EFL is owned by the clubs ... who are owned by the owners, so it's basically the club's who regulate themselves. There is an element of collective responsibility but the league agrees to do what the club's want it to.

So it is the chairmen who make their own rules but the fans that take the pain, do not the FA bear some responsibility also?