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May on the way??


Jacko51

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4 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

I thought Ambassadors were the highest level of diplomat, the US post being the top job, and selected by the UK. It is Trump that is the problem, do we have this sort of thing with Putin? . A diplomat`s job is to feed back the situation to the Govt not what the local chief tells him to.  GCHQ are responsible for comms security at high level. I am sure that most secure phone calls would be recorded also as evidence. 

Wasn't he sacked for not doing his job.

You know,for not being diplomatic?

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2 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Wasn't he sacked for not doing his job.

You know,for not being diplomatic?

He was not sacked, I would call it constructive dismissal, being put in an impossible situation by the leaking of his secret correspondence. I believe he resigned as a consequence.

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The view from across the pond - this is the first few paragraphs from an article in the Washington Post:

British Ambassador Kim Darroch’s private comments about President Trump were not shocking for those in Washington. The overall opinion among much of the diplomatic elite here is that the U.S. president is “inept” and “insecure,” as Darroch wrote. Trump’s secretary of state once even reportedly dubbed the president a “moron.”

Diplomats often trash their hosts, and it’s often well deserved. André François-Poncet, the French ambassador to Germany in 1935, wrote that Adolf Hitler was “obstinate, stubborn and mean to the point of madness.” A massive leak of U.S. diplomatic cables in 2011 featured one description of Italy’s Silvio Berlusconi as “feckless, vain and ineffective.”

Darroch’s decision to resign, which he announced Wednesday, was not a reflection of the severity of his comments. He might have used more measured language, aware that Trump was uniquely sensitive to criticism and that his messages were at risk of being leaked, especially given the bitter political conflicts back home in London.

But nothing he said was out of place for a diplomat in his position. If there is a breakdown in diplomatic norms here — and yes, there is one — it did not come from the British ambassador. What Darroch said in private about Trump was not unusual. What Trump’s diplomats do in public is what is really shocking.

In Berlin, one U.S. ambassador openly undermines the government; another in Amsterdam became a laughingstock for refusing to answer journalists’ questions, and yet another in Jerusalem openly shows bias in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. From Kenya to New Zealand, the ambassadors appointed by Trump have offended their hosts.

Ultimately, the rot comes from the top.

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4 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

 communicate to his colleagues in the UK in private.

 

 

That's what he thought he was doing.  That's what every ambassador thinks they are doing.  The fact that some of these supposedly encripted private cables have been released now at a time when a new PM will have the opportunity to appoint his replacement smells rather bad to me.

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He made the mistake of writing his comments down and putting himself at risk of being leaked. Yes Trump has acted in his usual arrogant work with us and obey us or <ovf censored> off attitude but as has correctly been pointed out Kim has acted undiplomatically, made his job impossible and has done the honourable thing by resigning. An investigation should take place to see how these comments got leaked as this should never have happened and cannot happen again. 

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10 minutes ago, philpvfc said:

He made the mistake of writing his comments down and putting himself at risk of being leaked. Yes Trump has acted in his usual arrogant work with us and obey us or <ovf censored> off attitude but as has correctly been pointed out Kim has acted undiplomatically, made his job impossible and has done the honourable thing by resigning. An investigation should take place to see how these comments got leaked as this should never have happened and cannot happen again. 

You don't understand the function of an ambassador then, he acted like all the other ambassadors in Washington, so they are all wrong. It is a error of the Govt in failing to control its intelligence, there are far more important  things at risk.

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The function of an ambassador is to act as a diplomat as in this case to act as a diplomat between the British Government and the American Government but his comments are seen to be undiplomatic. Truth as they probably are but not very diplomatic to be brought out in to public.

Some of my external clients I have worked with are very much incompetent but I don’t inform them of this and do my job professionally, if they knew what I thought of some of them I am very much sure they would not want to deal with me making my job impossible to achieve. No different IMO.

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1 hour ago, philpvfc said:

The function of an ambassador is to act as a diplomat as in this case to act as a diplomat between the British Government and the American Government but his comments are seen to be undiplomatic. Truth as they probably are but not very diplomatic to be brought out in to public.

Some of my external clients I have worked with are very much incompetent but I don’t inform them of this and do my job professionally, if they knew what I thought of some of them I am very much sure they would not want to deal with me making my job impossible to achieve. No different IMO.

No different? What the actual <ovf censored> is wrong with people? How did he inform them? He was doing EXACTLY what he is supposed to. 

His private, internal communications to his superiors were leaked. It's no different to you sending an internal e-mail to your boss saying that your clients are being difficult and you need to be careful how you deal with them, and someone in your company sending it to them directly. If that happened and you were called unprofessional, do you think that would be fair?

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7 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

The view from across the pond - this is the first few paragraphs from an article in the Washington Post:

British Ambassador Kim Darroch’s private comments about President Trump were not shocking for those in Washington. The overall opinion among much of the diplomatic elite here is that the U.S. president is “inept” and “insecure,” as Darroch wrote. Trump’s secretary of state once even reportedly dubbed the president a “moron.”

Diplomats often trash their hosts, and it’s often well deserved. André François-Poncet, the French ambassador to Germany in 1935, wrote that Adolf Hitler was “obstinate, stubborn and mean to the point of madness.” A massive leak of U.S. diplomatic cables in 2011 featured one description of Italy’s Silvio Berlusconi as “feckless, vain and ineffective.”

Darroch’s decision to resign, which he announced Wednesday, was not a reflection of the severity of his comments. He might have used more measured language, aware that Trump was uniquely sensitive to criticism and that his messages were at risk of being leaked, especially given the bitter political conflicts back home in London.

But nothing he said was out of place for a diplomat in his position. If there is a breakdown in diplomatic norms here — and yes, there is one — it did not come from the British ambassador. What Darroch said in private about Trump was not unusual. What Trump’s diplomats do in public is what is really shocking.

In Berlin, one U.S. ambassador openly undermines the government; another in Amsterdam became a laughingstock for refusing to answer journalists’ questions, and yet another in Jerusalem openly shows bias in Israeli-Palestinian negotiations. From Kenya to New Zealand, the ambassadors appointed by Trump have offended their hosts.

Ultimately, the rot comes from the top.

The WaPo would say stuff like that, a left leaning newspaper owned by the left leaning Jeff Bezos who's had a few spats with Trump.

Trump isn't a career politician, he said he was going to shake Washington up and his manner can rub people up the wrong way.

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4 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

That's what he thought he was doing.  That's what every ambassador thinks they are doing.  The fact that some of these supposedly encripted private cables have been released now at a time when a new PM will have the opportunity to appoint his replacement smells rather bad to me.

Writing negative stuff down that is directly traceable to you is not advisable especially when there is no control over where the e-mail/cable/letter may end up. It's the first "Don't do" in an e-mail training course.

The BBC reports Teresa May may appoint the next US Ambassador.

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I don't doubt he believes what he wrote, on probabilities it's accurate. His mistake was believing his private communications were safe in the hands of people in this country. They should have been, but as we know from the many previous leaks they weren't.... once they were released his position became untenable  and he had to go... but he couldn't be sacked without losing face.

The responsibility for this screw up rests on this side of the Atlantic... whatever you think of Trump or his administration this is our mess.

In the world of secret squirrels the mole is king.

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16 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

So  they make sure that governments are only elected by minorities.

In some cases that will true depending on the gerrymander of the total vote i.e. a party winning more seats doesn't necessarily equate to winning the majority of votes - same as for the President of the USA who may win the majority of the States, but not the majority of vote cast.

  

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17 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

Our ambassador got caught, that was his own doing and he has made his position untenable...

Really RB!

So it's okay for Trump to use Twitter to bad mouth all and sundry, but not okay for an Ambassador to express a concern using internal communications? 

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1 hour ago, Aussie Rules said:

Really RB!

So it's okay for Trump to use Twitter to bad mouth all and sundry, but not okay for an Ambassador to express a concern using internal communications? 

He could have used more sensitive language. How can he possibly carry on in his role if the Trump administration wont deal with him?

Yes it is the fault of who ever leaked the messages but that doesn't change the fact that he can no longer fulfil his duties.

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