Retained list

[CambridgeDon]

I don't think it all depends on money. Clearly paying money out can help but it's not a 100% guarantee.

 

I know I am going to go back a fair bit now but... we paid £300,000 for Peter Beadle and he was rubbish. We paid £3,000 for Andy Jones and he was not.

 

I understand that if you want a "quality, proven striker" you will probably have to pay for that but as we know to our cost, sometimes another club's "brilliant" player can often be a let-down when they move to us.

 

If you have a quality scout then you may still be able to get a bargain. I understand Rudge played a part in Clark joining earlier this season - perhaps he has a couple of "chancers" he may recommend?

 

Personally, I would be happy with the way Rudge used to do it - bring in one of each - an experienced old hand (a Ally Brown, a Ron Futcher, a Nicky Cross) and a young rookie (an Andy Jones, a Darren Beckford) to learn off them.

 

If we end up with an experienced striker to pair with Pope and one we don't "have to pay too much" for that would work for me.

 

I agree with a lot of that but, after the last three seasons, we can't afford too many more gambles in the hope that one turns out well. Rudgie did have a lot of success in bringing in unknown players who cost relatively little, but he also paid out for some of the best strikers we've seen, my own favourite being the Tin Man. It would work for me too if we got a decent striker we didn't have to pay too much for but I'm seriously concerned at the prospect of another season trying to survive on Popey's goals. We do need a proven striker, imho, after finishing as the lowest goalscorers in L2.

[robf]

Fair point and I guess a lot of things are down to continuity and consistency. In that - Rudge was there long enough and with enough of a proven record to be able to be trusted to make big-money signings and yet still be able gamble on signings (whether from non-league or abroad). The latter were more hit and miss as for every Robin Bernstein or Nico Jalink there was a Robin van der Laan or Jan Jansson etc. But he was allowed to sign them precisely because he had unearthed some gems that way.

 

I guess what is happening now is we've had an influx of unknown and often poor quality signings and every time an unknown player is signed the warning bells go off.

 

For me, I'd agree that I'd like a squad with a spine of experience/quality plus some "chancers" which may or may not pay off.

 

It looks to me like the cheaper signings are coming in now. That seems to chime with Askey's comments to the Sentinel that...

 

"It is getting the timing right. At the moment, players' prices are at their highest. Another month down the line when they start to worry about whether they have a club to sign for or not, then the prices come down slightly. So, sometimes it is just about holding your nerve."

 

So maybe it's a month to go before the experienced / more expensive ones are targeted?

[Joe B]

Hannant has signed for Cambridge. 2 year deal. Decent move all round.

[valiant_593]

Not from me it hasn't. I've always been a fan of bringing in from non-league as I think you can take a gamble on a few and usually see one or two make the step up.

 

For example, I think Oyeleke has broken through last season and I personally felt Angus could well have followed suit given a chance. I also wonder if Trickett-Smith can do so next season.

 

I also don't think Smurthwaite's recent purchases were "non-league" anyhow - the ones he brought in like Edser and Whelan were academy kids from higher leagues - a different thing altogether to non-league prospects.

 

I don’t mind us signing non league. But when smurthwaite was in charge everyone wanted these 20 goal a seaon players and moaned when a non league player signed. Now it seems different. Players like Angus and oleyeke were very recent as well as others. Trickett smith as you say.

[Joe B]

I don’t mind us signing non league. But when smurthwaite was in charge everyone wanted these 20 goal a seaon players and moaned when a non league player signed. Now it seems different. Players like Angus and oleyeke were very recent as well as others. Trickett smith as you say.

 

Difference is, under Norman, the club had the financial capabilities of competing for big-name strikers. We made over £2.5m from transfers (and God knows more from exclusivity fees, gate receipts, and TV money) and didn't see a penny reinvested. He's ran off with everything, including the future instalment that has yet to be paid on Hugill. We're starting, effectively, from zero.

 

That's why attitudes differ; Norman could have funded a big name forward but chose instead to fund Danny Elliot and Dan Trickett Smith.

 

Fans are more realistic now in that the club probably, bar a big season ticket push (which some refuse to back unless we sign a big name player, in THE most ludicrous, backwards, and reductive display of logic and critical thinking I've ever seen), doesn't have the funds to compete, yet, for the big names. This is a direct result of the penny pinching and pilfering delivered by Mr Smurthwaite.

 

In time, we'll get back to signing bigger names. Just going to take time to build up the revenue to do so after being run in the incompetent and at times immoral way we have been.

[JRC]

Hannant has signed for Cambridge. 2 year deal. Decent move all round.

 

Good luck, mobile, gives 100% and versatile. Not surprised he got fixed up.

[llcoolj]

I think that deal was already sorted before the season ended. Manny will sign for someone else I reckon as well

[JRC]

I think that deal was already sorted before the season ended. Manny will sign for someone else I reckon as well

 

Whether or not I suspect he would have jumped at the chance to move closer to home when the offer came in.

[CAVALIER]

Hannant is from that area, Norwich way, so suits him. Wonder what their fans think, signing a freebie from us

[valiant_593]

Difference is, under Norman, the club had the financial capabilities of competing for big-name strikers. We made over £2.5m from transfers (and God knows more from exclusivity fees, gate receipts, and TV money) and didn't see a penny reinvested. He's ran off with everything, including the future instalment that has yet to be paid on Hugill. We're starting, effectively, from zero.

 

That's why attitudes differ; Norman could have funded a big name forward but chose instead to fund Danny Elliot and Dan Trickett Smith.

 

Fans are more realistic now in that the club probably, bar a big season ticket push (which some refuse to back unless we sign a big name player, in THE most ludicrous, backwards, and reductive display of logic and critical thinking I've ever seen), doesn't have the funds to compete, yet, for the big names. This is a direct result of the penny pinching and pilfering delivered by Mr Smurthwaite.

 

In time, we'll get back to signing bigger names. Just going to take time to build up the revenue to do so after being run in the incompetent and at times immoral way we have been.

 

Wouldn’t any new chairman effect start with ‘zero’? Gate receipts and tv money every club gets that...

 

I don’t agree how that makes fans attitude to signing non league players any different what so ever. It makes absalutley no sense how taking a gamble on Elliot and tricket Smith back then was wrong but would seen as a positive signing now.

 

Your point re season tickets isn’t ludicrous what so ever. Fans want to see something to make them get a season ticket. sign players and fans will get season tickets. And it’s certainly got nothing to do with the previous chairman.

 

Buy some decent players and fans will follow its as simple as that.

 

‘In time’ how long is that then? With all due respect they’ve taken over a league two side that should at minimum be pushing the play offs. The budget should be there to do that now not 3/4 years down the line. You have teams with tiny budgets competing at the top and getting promoted from this league. We are still one of the bigger sides and should be able to get players to join us.

[elav trop 1876]

Wouldn’t any new chairman effect start with ‘zero’? Gate receipts and tv money every club gets that...

 

I don’t agree how that makes fans attitude to signing non league players any different what so ever. It makes absalutley no sense how taking a gamble on Elliot and tricket Smith back then was wrong but would seen as a positive signing now.

 

Your point re season tickets isn’t ludicrous what so ever. Fans want to see something to make them get a season ticket. sign players and fans will get season tickets. And it’s certainly got nothing to do with the previous chairman.

 

Buy some decent players and fans will follow its as simple as that.

 

‘In time’ how long is that then? With all due respect they’ve taken over a league two side that should at minimum be pushing the play offs. The budget should be there to do that now not 3/4 years down the line. You have teams with tiny budgets competing at the top and getting promoted from this league. We are still one of the bigger sides and should be able to get players to join us.

 

 

Well how long did the dictator have, now him having raped the club and left it in a worse state than when he bought it the new owners are at a level lower than the first rung of the ladder with so much to do which should have been done in the run up to the end of the season.

 

The new owners will have goodwill the same as the old judas, but overtime we are all confident that it will grow in addition to more stability on /off the pitch but will take at least 2 years to clear the garden , replant and nurture the growth- totally different route than as before where the garden was just a dumping ground for the old & desperate...

totally different outlook, attitudes & starting points of 2 owners ,think Carol n Kevin deserve credit for saving our club and having to do so much in a short time unlike the previous one who had it all on a plate.

[Wrex]

Wouldn’t any new chairman effect start with ‘zero’? Gate receipts and tv money every club gets that...

 

I don’t agree how that makes fans attitude to signing non league players any different what so ever. It makes absalutley no sense how taking a gamble on Elliot and tricket Smith back then was wrong but would seen as a positive signing now.

 

Your point re season tickets isn’t ludicrous what so ever. Fans want to see something to make them get a season ticket. sign players and fans will get season tickets. And it’s certainly got nothing to do with the previous chairman.

 

Buy some decent players and fans will follow its as simple as that.

 

‘In time’ how long is that then? With all due respect they’ve taken over a league two side that should at minimum be pushing the play offs. The budget should be there to do that now not 3/4 years down the line. You have teams with tiny budgets competing at the top and getting promoted from this league. We are still one of the bigger sides and should be able to get players to join us.

 

Smurthwaite had transfer money and skimped money wherever he could, siphoning it off to some of his many companies/back pocket, leading to things like the stadium falling into disrepair. He then fleeced the Shanahan's for as much as humanly possible.

 

This means that as well as not having any Highill money to spend, they have been denied the chance to inject some money into the Askey war chest straight away and have had to shell out on rebuilding the club's infrastructure. Hence the budget will be comparable to last season's until bums start returning to seats.

[Wrex]

Wonder what their fans think, signing a freebie from us

 

50+ games for a club above them in the league. Shouldn't be too disheartened.

[ollyandpatch]

Hannants started at Cambridge so done full circle.

[Joe B]

Wouldn’t any new chairman effect start with ‘zero’? Gate receipts and tv money every club gets that...

 

I don’t agree how that makes fans attitude to signing non league players any different what so ever. It makes absalutley no sense how taking a gamble on Elliot and tricket Smith back then was wrong but would seen as a positive signing now.

 

Your point re season tickets isn’t ludicrous what so ever. Fans want to see something to make them get a season ticket. sign players and fans will get season tickets. And it’s certainly got nothing to do with the previous chairman.

 

Buy some decent players and fans will follow its as simple as that.

 

‘In time’ how long is that then? With all due respect they’ve taken over a league two side that should at minimum be pushing the play offs. The budget should be there to do that now not 3/4 years down the line. You have teams with tiny budgets competing at the top and getting promoted from this league. We are still one of the bigger sides and should be able to get players to join us.

 

Absolute nonsense.

 

Norman, through no work of his own, lucked into around £4m+ in unbudgeted revenue. By gate receipts and TV money, I am referring to the unusual Stoke Checkatrade and Sunderland FA Cup windfall (with the latter being on BT). As a result, we had far higher expectations of club expenditure than what we saw.

 

Carol and Kevin have come into the club with a dwindling fanbase and vast amounts of work to do off the field. They've had to pay WELL above market value and now have a job on their hands to turn what was a loss-making enterprise (in terms of monthly income and expenditure under Norman, once the unbudgeted revenue has dried up). As a result, we have far lower expectations of club expenditure than under the previous regime. Anything else would be silly.

 

On what basis are we one of the bigger teams? A good spell nearly 30 years ago? A big, crumbling, empty stadium? A middle of the road average attendance? The 13th largest budget? We've just finished 20th twice in a row. We are not one of the more attractive teams in this division based on the achievements of John Rudge in the 1990s. No one apart from us cares.

 

People expecting us to challenge the playoffs on the basis of merit are going to be very, very disappointed, and have massively underestimated how shafted our club is. We nearly went into non-league twice in a row.

 

What are they supposed to buy these players with? What happens if your simple plan doesn't work, and suddenly we're fouling foul of FFP and face insolvency? Business and a community asset like Vale isn't to be gambled on the reductive and very basic premise of 'buy players and fans will magic themselves out of thin air'. Football fans, and Stoke on Trent people, are not going to rush to get a ST because we've signed an established League 2 journeyman like Reuben Reid, for example. They don't care enough.

 

You often talk sense but that above post mate is amongst the most nonsensical things I've read on here since the takeover. You're advocated a Bury-esque splurge on players with no sustainable revenue to support it, on the basis that fans, from somewhere, will spend £300 on ST based on the signing of what would most probably be a League 1/League 2 striker. Players aren't going to join us because we used to be good, and we're often seen as one of the more tinpot clubs around. The three teams who went up this season all spent vast amounts, and one is on the verge of liquidation as a consequence. There is an amount of time it is going to take to get us on an even footing before we start splurging.