Who should we sign?

[Iron Curtain]

3 minutes ago, valiant_593 said:

Shame about Whitfield and not one I agree with. It was only this time last year everyone was raving about him and rightly so. Definitely has the class to be a top player in this league, hasn’t been anywhere near consistent enough before is 100% good enough and I’d say one of our better players. I hope if we’re forcing him out we have a decent replacement waiting. Don’t see what is wrong with having Whitfield on the bench can win points by himself. 

I thinks this is a bit of a myth about Ben... can he really win points off the bench by himself?

how many examples of this were there last year?

He benefited from bringing high energy into games that last season were often slow and lethargic... but he often only did it for 15 mins before running out of puff.

 

[SFBT]

1 minute ago, Iron Curtain said:

I thinks this is a bit of a myth about Ben... can he really win points off the bench by himself?

how many examples of this were there last year?

He benefited from bringing high energy into games that last season were often slow and lethargic... but he often only did it for 15 mins before running out of puff.

 

Maybe high energy players need high energy players around them?

[JRC]

1 minute ago, valiant_593 said:

The issue for me with these ‘versatile players’ is that they are generally much worse in their so called secondary position. Look at rawlinson. Decent centre back, awful at right back, same as montano. Decent winger, awful left back. It always worries me seeing players who can apparently play in 4/5 positions but are actually not particularly good in any of them. 

Looking at that squad for me we’re still weak in midfield. If manny gets injured I think we’re a player short there. 

For me somewhere between 24 and 26 is the minimum, with some versatility  built in. The problem is if a right back gets injured in a game there is a much chance his replacement gets injured in the next game as any other player. The reality is a third choice will play games in some position every season. It's a physical sport and injuries and suspensions happen. Before the transfer window came in it was far easier to cover and clubs at our level could run comfortably at 20 or less. The problem a manager faces is he has no idea which positions he'll have to cover with 3rd or 4th choices at some point.

[SFBT]

As has been said as infinitum, Ben hasn't produced enough to warrant a place in the team.

My view has always been that he could be a good player in a good team, but not in a poor team.

Consequently, he was never going to make it in the Vale teams he's played in.

[Jacko51]

2 hours ago, Erniemossrules said:

Crookes can play centre half and put Monty at left back simples.

Except Monty pulls his hamstring if you look at him a bit funny.

[Jacko51]

17 hours ago, Erniemossrules said:

 

Come on who in their right mind would prefer Lloyd over Foley.

Someone who didn't want us relegated?  Foley's last three clubs have been Yeovil, Vale and Northampton and he's been relegated with all of them.  He's cursed!

[SFBT]

2 minutes ago, JRC said:

For me somewhere between 24 and 26 is the minimum, with some versatility  built in. The problem is if a right back gets injured in a game there is a much chance his replacement gets injured in the next game as any other player. The reality is a third choice will play games in some position every season. It's a physical sport and injuries and suspensions happen. Before the transfer window came in it was far easier to cover and clubs at our level could run comfortably at 20 or less. The problem a manager faces is he has no idea which positions he'll have to cover with 3rd or 4th choices at some point.

And, I think I'm right on thinking that the National League allows mid season signings, so Askey has little experience of this system.

I get the idea of a lean squad, but it had its risks 

[JRC]

7 minutes ago, SFBT said:

And, I think I'm right on thinking that the National League allows mid season signings, so Askey has little experience of this system.

I get the idea of a lean squad, but it had its risks 

I think a lot of clubs at our level are finding the perfect number hard to calculate, which was why I had a look at the top 3 towards the end of last season. Accrington went up the year before with about 25/26 I think (had a look in April), although they were quite lucky that some key players got through the whole season pretty much. It's a gamble whichever way you go. In theory you could gamble with just 11 and there is a very remote chance nobody would get injured or suspended, you could have 40 and there's still a chance all your centrehalves get suspended or injured at the same time. I honestly don't know for certain, 24 - 26 is just my best guess.

[Burslem Academicals]

Askey had one of the lowest budgets in the conference and Macc were favourites for relegation but instead went as Champions

and somewhere it was said that Askey had a squad of just 22 or 23 players.

Really don't think a squad of 25 is small rather it is squads of 36 where a dozen are not even training with the first team squad and cannot even get reserve games and are essentially unfit and not needed that is wastefull.

The ideal has to be at very least a squad of 22 with two for every position say plus 3 to cover for injuries such that all are involved in first team training and will get games maybe some league starts perhaps and certainly game time off the bench plus cup games and of course reserve games such that everyone is involved in the season and match fit.

Personally players who are versatile are a bonus and in a compact efficient squad having half a dozen players who can play in more than one position is handy.

Bennett can play on the left of a front three or at centre forward while Worrall can play on the right of a front three or right side in a midfield three.....to be able to play adjacent positions and understand the role is a sign of football intelligence.

But the one thing about Askey is a conviction about the type of football and the type of footballer and the type of character.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Iron Curtain]

1 hour ago, valiant_593 said:

Shame about Whitfield and not one I agree with. It was only this time last year everyone was raving about him and rightly so. Definitely has the class to be a top player in this league, hasn’t been anywhere near consistent enough before is 100% good enough and I’d say one of our better players. I hope if we’re forcing him out we have a decent replacement waiting. Don’t see what is wrong with having Whitfield on the bench can win points by himself. 

I have done some digging into this by going through every game of last season on Sky Sports.

It doesn't make very good reading for Ben or your point that he can win points by himself... the truth is he just doesn't.

Ben was brought on as a sub in 12 games as a sub last year (I have ignored the 90 min plus time wasting substitutions)

In 10 of those games the scoreline stayed exactly the same after Ben came on

In one of those games we lost points after Ben came on

In one game (Lincoln) we gained points after Ben came on... But watching the video, he has little, or nothing to do with Manny's wonder goal.

So points won by Ben from the bench over the season ranges from 0-3 depending on how nice you are.

Of the games Ben started we Lost 72%, Won 18% and Drew 9%.... This is a FAR FAR worse record than the season as a whole.... so the Vale without Ben performed significantly better.

Its unfortunate, because I liked the idea of him... unfortunately that all it seems to be... an idea that never became relaity.

 

[Burslem Academicals]

Interesting interview with Askey upon return from Scotland.....spoke of the need for a keeper plus one more signing which

probably means Madison and Browne....and a squad of 22 senior first team players....also spoke of Ryan Lloyd in

terms of a left back role....so a quick check gives us something like the following.

GK Brown/Madison

RB Gibbons/Evans

CB Legge/Smith/Kennedy/Rawlinson

LB Crookes/Lloyd

MF Oyeleke/Joyce/Conlon/Burgess/Trickett-Smith

WF Worrall/Amoo/Montano/Browne

CF Pope/Cullen/Bennett

So bingo that's 22 senior first team players and from which it could be surmised that Whitfield is nolonger considered in the first team squad and there was some talk on here not Askey about signing Hurst but Hurst staying on loan at Bradford Park Avenue.

Askey did say that if anyone got a significant injury before the loan window closed they would get a loan player in.

So given everyone expects Madison and Browne to get contracts then the above is what we go with.

 

[Burslem Academicals]

So kinda the pure ideal of 22 players two for each position.....first team/second team.

 

.........................................................................Brown............................................................

Gibbons...........................................Legge..........................Smith.............................Crookes

...................................Worrall............................Oyeleke.....................Conlon.........................

..............Amoo......................................................Pope.......................................Bennett........

 

..........................................................................Madison...........................................................

Evans............................................Rawlinson.........................Kennedy.............................Lloyd

.....................................Burgess..........................Joyce......................Trickett-Smith..................

........................Browne......................................Cullen......................................Montano.............

 

Plus Cambell-Gordon/Berks/Green-Birch

[darren1810]

With regards to the Whitfield debate, he can excite coming on as a sub. Then when he is selected for 90 minutes is largely anonymous. 

I'll always be fond of the lad purely because had we not beaten Chesterfield with 10 men I'm convinced in my mind we would of gone down.

The last 2 seasons have seen 2 absolutely pivotal moments for me. 

The Whitfield winner and the Scott Brown penalty save against Mansfield. Without either of those we possibly could be non-league. 

It looks like it hasn't worked out for him but his screamer against Wycombe and individual excellence against Chesterfield show there is a player in there somewhere

[Burslem Academicals]

Summary;Whitfield is an enigma and it seems that Askey doesn't have time for an enigma and has moved on.

[PV1973]

Being exciting and actually being effective are 2 different things though. Sometimes to me it looked like he was doing stuff just for the crowd and himself rather than for the team.