Engerland

[TylerB]

Although he did some nice things last night, I still think it's a bit early for Sancho as a starter on the International stage. As of right now it has to be a front three of Kane, Rashford and Sterling when everybody is fit, with Sancho and Hudson-Odoi used as impact players.[/quote

 

Was Sterling on the pitch last night?

 

It wasn't his game but he worked hard throughout and almost scored with a solo effort. There were far worse performers for England than Sterling last night. Once he was played up top alongside Kane he was much more effective.

[For Us All]

Four individual defensive errors,four goals sums it up really.

[TheSage]

As I said yesterday, our midfield is poor and those three are not good enough.

Games are won and lost in midfield is a cliche but 100% true.

The same thing happened last year when Modric outclassed us.

 

We need Foden to develop rapidly and find another ball playing midfielder of top quality or we'll remain the nearly men, as usual.

 

We were beaten by the much better team last night. They kept the ball better and created more chances. No complaints. Second best.

[jjvale_03]

As I said yesterday, our midfield is poor and those three are not good enough.

Games are won and lost in midfield is a cliche but 100% true.

The same thing happened last year when Modric outclassed us.

 

We need Foden to develop rapidly and find another ball playing midfielder of top quality or we'll remain the nearly men, as usual.

 

We were beaten by the much better team last night. They kept the ball better and created more chances. No complaints. Second best.

 

Spot on.

 

The game was decided by stupid mistakes but ultimately we're going nowhere with a midfield three of Declan Rice, Fabian Delph and Ross Barkley. Got a lot of strength in depth but no 'stand out' players in those midfield positions.

[TylerB]

As I said yesterday, our midfield is poor and those three are not good enough.

Games are won and lost in midfield is a cliche but 100% true.

The same thing happened last year when Modric outclassed us.

 

We need Foden to develop rapidly and find another ball playing midfielder of top quality or we'll remain the nearly men, as usual.

 

We were beaten by the much better team last night. They kept the ball better and created more chances. No complaints. Second best.

 

I struggle to remember what chances Netherlands created themselves throughout the game. Pretty much all of their chances came from England defenders making ridiculous decisions. England allowed Holland to come on to the then when 1 up as most teams do for some silly reason. As soon as Netherlands scored we then decided to play again and battered them for the remainder of the half.

 

Delph has never been good enough at the highest level and Rice, who improved as the game wore on, is obviously still learning. I thought Barkley was one of the better players on the pitch up until his mistake, and I know some Holland fans were raving about him too.

 

England lost the game last night more than Netherlands won it. 100%

[Jacko51]

Swap Stones for Van Dijk and we win that game at a canter.

[hamilboy]

Watching John Stones play centre back reminds me of Bob Delgado and Jermaine Holwyn trying to be defenders at the vale.Tommy Cheadle and Roy Sproson would walk in this England team instead of that clown Stones.

[TylerB]

Swap Stones for Van Dijk and we win that game at a canter.

 

If we played them again on Sunday I'd be more confident of beating them then I was before the loss yesterday. Because although we aren't great at the back no matter who we play, Stones and Maguire will never play that badly again in an England shirt and we won't collectively make as many mistakes as we did last night either. All this "Netherlands were miles better than us" is absolute nonsense. They had one player who kept possession much better than anyone else but other than that they were toothless, and had we not gifted them goals they wouldn't have scored many goals if they were still playing now. Even De Lijt was bang average on the night as he doesn't like coming up against quick players. It's no surprise at all that he was much better once Rashford had to go off and Kane was on the pitch.

 

Fortunately for us we have Gomez and Alexander-Arnold to come into the back-line. Admittedly Arnold is better going forward than defending but you won't see him doing a Kyle Walker, that's for sure.

[philpvfc]

Poor team selection, poor tactics, waste of time subs and no idea in changing something that isn’t working.

[Warren]

The Dutch looked a better team in defence and midfield. We were playing out from the back using players who were not good enough to play out of the back at that level. We had enough warnings before the mistakes which were also influenced by tiredness.

 

We needed to go three at the back and bring on Alexander Arnold and play through the wing backs with a more solid centre in the late second half. I won't talk about the starting selection because it was harmed by the CL final and Kane's fitness.

 

But where I have a big problem with Gareth Southgate is him talking about the future. There was only the now, a chance to win a tournament, and it has been thrown away. The future playing from the back is for the next game, we don't need to practice it when not working in a semi final we have worked so hard to get to. Also, there is a reason Stones is a fringe player at Man City, it is because he overdoes the dribbling round own box and he is poor at marking and weak in the air - relatively at this level.

 

Overall the stats say the Dutch were much the better team, so maybe the gap was too great anyway, but surely we could just be sensible in the moment.

[Paul6754]

Absolute nonsense. Yes, they kept the ball better than we did but pretty much all of their chances came from our own mistakes. We were also literally half a foot away from making a final and knocking them out. You've named their best three players but after those three there's not one Dutch player that would get in our 11 with the exception of the keeper. You could make a case for Wijnaldum probably but I wouldn't say he's a better player than Loftus-Cheek, who obviously didn't play tonight.

 

I'd rather have our squad than theirs, regardless of how good Van Dijk and de Jong are. De Lijt is good at what he does but he constantly gets megged and has been at fault for a few goals I've seen when watching Ajax/Holland play. But because he shouts a lot and looks older than his age, he can do no wrong in some people's eyes.

 

I named just three of their players, English players tend to get over hyped because of the country's desperation for football superstars, the biggest example is Raheem Sterling no matter how many awards he's won. When it comes to making the transition from Premier League to International football most English players can't hack it and haven't been able to for years.

 

We were outplayed last night, our goal came against the run of play, the writing was on the wall before Stones made his first mistake, the fact that he started for England says it all, as for Delph, WTF, just testament to the poor quality available......and it hurts.

[TylerB]

Outplayed. Lmao! I judge games based on chances created, not possession that's mostly stemed from passing it around a couple of meteres in midfield. Off the top of my head I remember Sterling clipping the bar, Sancho somehow putting a header from 5 yards out straight into the keepers arms. And the offside goal with 7 minutes of normal time left that on another day could easily have been given. I can barely remember Netherlands doing anything other than when one of our defenders gifted them something. When the Dutch were well on top for 10 minutes or so in the second half leading up to their goal it was because England rightly or wrongly sat back and allowed them. As soon as they scored our mentality instantly changed and we were well and truly on top until the dissalowed goal obviously deflated us as a team.

[philpvfc]

Holland didn’t look very good but they were better than us on the night and deserved to win. That was the worst England Performance I’ve seen for a few years but had we been on our game and Southgate got things right we could and should have beaten a very average Dutch team.

[TylerB]

Holland didn’t look very good but they were better than us on the night and deserved to win. That was the worst England Performance I’ve seen for a few years but had we been on our game and Southgate got things right we could and should have beaten a very average Dutch team.

 

Which goes back to a point a made beforehand that despite the loss, I'd be very confident of us turning them over if we were to play them again anytime soon. I'll give them credit though in that they did press really well, which shouldn't be surprised when they have players like Wijnaldum in their team. If they don't press to such an extent then those England mistakes at the back don't happen.

 

I still think De Lijt is massively over-rated though. He's brilliant in the air and is obviously well built for a 19 year old, he reminds me of a young John Terry. But some people talk about him as if he's a great already. Call me biased but I wouldn't swap him for Joe Gomez.

[RailwayRowdy]

Why won’t people accept that actually we’re not that good. It matters little if we play the Dutch next week, next month or next year. When it matters yet again we fail. Why can’t people see what’s in front of their eyes ?