The Myth that is Tom Pope

[Bycarsbill]

Take away all the other views/stats/opinion, but what is irrefutable is that Philmpv hits the nail on the head when he states factually, we do not have players with the ability of putting crosses into the box and IMO this is probably our biggest single problem and the largest factor in our appalling lack of goals--only 2 other teams out of the total 72 in the EFL have scored less than our paltry 27 goals!

[geosname]

Followers of Popelam please do not continue to read this thread. I am about to question the Prophet....

 

I am strongly of the opinion that Tom needs to be dropped, immediately, and the apparent future strategy of building a team around him, a 33 year old immobile target man discontinued.

 

THE BASIC STATS

 

Over the past 40 seasons, our average goals for is just under 59 goals per season. For full seasons of teams including Tom Pope, that average drops, markedly, to just under 52 goals per season. This is despite the remarkable promotion season (87 goals). Take that season out, and the average drops to a paltry 46 goals per season. So, I think it is fair to say that a team including Tom Pope scores less goals than the average.

 

Many reasons may be postulated for the stats, and I would agree with some, but not all. In that flying season, we had great wingers supplying quality balls. We no longer have that, and haven't for some time. So, the big question, for me, is why we persist in trying to 'feed the Pope' when it is abudantly clear that we do not have the tools to do this. The crossing ability within the squad is, quite simply, shocking. This is not Tom's fault, of course, but would you continue to try to light a wet match, or find another way to start a fire?

 

HIS PERCEIVED HEADING ABILITY AND HOLD UP PLAY

 

'Popeball' is, of course, the system of choice, and has been whenever Tom is playing. Hit it as long as you can in the direction of Tom Pope and hope that he can make something of it. Which is fine if he generally makes something of it. He doesn't. He is generally marked by 2 CBs, making his life even more difficult. 8 times out of 10, he misses the ball, 1 time out of 10 he is penalised for a foul, given his inclination to grab whatever he can of his oppos, even in full view of the ref, and 1 time out of 10 he wins the header. Now if, when he actually wins the header, it was a targeted flick on or knock down, great. It isn't. The ball generally bounces off his head (which I think must be shaped like a sherrif's badge) quite randomly, and often back up into the air, leaving the CBs to win the second ball. In short, most attempts at Popeball result in possession quite easily being given back to the opposition. It's all well and good trying to get players in and around Tom, but if he cannot actually do anything other than randomly ping the ball back up into the air, then this will rarely succeed. When was the last time that we scored a goal from a targeted Pope flick on?

 

Another valid point is his immobility. If the ball isn't played to him on a sixpence, he can't get it, quite simply as he's both too slow and immobile to move a great deal. Often, a temper tantrum ensues at this point. When he does manage to win a ball, control it, and lay it off, he is so slow at getting into the area that the attacking momentum created is gone by the time that he does. The best example of this was the recent home game where he was partnered with Whitfield. Time and time again in the first half, Whitfield got in behind, looked up, and Tom was still some way from the area, leaving Ben with no choice but to try and take it on himself.

 

 

THE TEMPER TANTRUMS / ABUSE

 

This is a trait that really rankles with me.

 

I am all for players talking to each other and giving contructive criticism if this is warranted, even if this is shouted. Nothing wrong with that. However, to go to such extremes as Tom appears to, with the angry face, vitriol spewing from his mouth, pirouettes, and arms flailing does is completely unwarranted and, more importantly, not helpful at all to a largely young and inexperienced squad, and can do nothing but increase the liklihood of nerves and lack of confidence amongst such players. And this is the captain! A prime example of this was actually immediately prior to him missing that sitter against Cambridge. If you watch the replay, you will see the pirouetting Tom screaming abuse at the crosser, immediately getting the ball then, only to miss. I can't help feel that if, rather than having a tantrum as he was at that time, he would ver likely have scored.

 

To have a captain conducting himself in this way is not, in my opinion, conducive of any element of good morale, and will certainly not improve the situation.

 

Askey is now the third manager to see Tom Pope as the be all and end all, a knight in shining armour, such a quality player that the team must be built around him. If we continue down this road, we will only continue to fail and struggle. Aspin once said, I belive, something along the lines of 'there's not strikers many like Tom about any more'. Perhaps there's a reason for that? The game has moved on from permitting a solid grappling battle of strength between oppos. The amount of fouls that Tom concedes (rightly or wrongly) is testament to this.

 

As sensible as this post is it won't be popular..... partly because if he is dropped there is no one else to shout for.

[JohnJames]

Take away all the other views/stats/opinion, but what is irrefutable is that Philmpv hits the nail on the head when he states factually, we do not have players with the ability of putting crosses into the box and IMO this is probably our biggest single problem and the largest factor in our appalling lack of goals--only 2 other teams out of the total 72 in the EFL have scored less than our paltry 27 goals!

 

We have a player who’s scored 17 goals whilst out on loan.....don’t want him near the team

[Paul6754]

Since Tom Pope's return from Bury.

 

The facts:

 

2017/18 Season, 19 goals/46 Apps, top scorer.

2018/19 Season, 11 goals/28 Apps, top scorer.

 

No questioning his value to the team.

 

Everything else is opinion and debateable.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Since Tom Pope's return from Bury.

 

The facts:

 

2017/18 Season, 19 goals/46 Apps, top scorer.

2018/19 Season, 11 goals/28 Apps, top scorer.

 

No questioning his value to the team.

 

Everything else is opinion and debateable.

 

I think these stats only serve to support the OP as it’s clearly Popeball or no way and his ratio is dropping largely because people have figured him and us out. Sadly through little fault of his own he makes us a one trick pony. If everything revolves around him he really needs to convert more.

[Paul6754]

Vale just need to find someone(s) to play along side him, someone with league 1/2 experience rather than drop him. The likes of an Alex Jones, a Leith-Smith (Just using ex-Vale players for effect). At the beginning of the season I thought we had found someone in Ricky Miller but for whatever reason it hasn't happened although there's still time.

 

I hope Askey plays Miller and/or Whitfield along side him on Tuesday, Harris doesn't appear to be the answer.

 

Vale are a one trick pony 'cause the opposition know we have no one else, if there was a goalscorer along side Pope and the opposition doubled up on Pope than Vale would surely have a greater chance of scoring goals.

 

I thought Pope got a really bad shake from the ref on Saturday, the pen should have been re-taken and countless times Pope was manhandled by their two central defenders and the ref gave nothing.

[Guest]

Tom Pope has been a fantastic servant to Vale but there comes a time when you have to try something different as you cannot put pressure on the Vale main man and fan to deliver all the time .

The lack of goals in our team is frightening .

On sat Joyce put some good balls in and as usual Smith Rawlinson and Crookes for centre halfs never got on the end of them .

Come think of it a corner or a set piece situation last season never amounted to anything .

Thats the problem we dont have the hunger put the ball in the net and keep it out of ours and thats why we are 88th out of 92 in league status .

Popey like everyone else should be willing come off early (Askey has to be brave enough do that and see if another way of getting that all important goal hoals rtc )and try a different route to goal instead of leaving him on when its quite frankly not his day as saturday wasnt and youcould visibly see his frustration at his team mates who are limited but occassionally ok .

Thats my opinion anyway .

Harris holds the ball up well but we want see someone breaking the net .

Folk moan about Hannant but least that lad has some attempts at goal the one on sat early second half if that would have gone in it would have been a magnificent goal.

Popey s been brilliant but its a team game so all play like its a team game UTV .

Not about individuals has i have players i would like not representing Vale at all but all the managers seem think he is the answer my question is this .

How effective is Nathan Smith ,does he head the ball down at corners for one of our players score ?

Wasnt Ellison is man on sat if so why is he allowing him time to pass it to the wide left player as watching the goal he seems be doing nothing .

Rawlinson joined in on sat and made runs forward yet he is the he is deemed not good enough lets berate him unfairly in my opinion .

Our defence had nowt do on sat yet nearly conceded 3 times when under little pressure at all .

Is pope the problem ,No smurf is and players stealing a wage

[beasty77]

Pope simply needs the service. The crosses that have gone in this season are simply sunday league stuff..Tall players like Kevin Francis and Peter Crouch would struggle in this Vale side.

[Jacko51]

I think it is perfectly fine for anyone to comment on a player, his current form, his effect on the team and so on. What I find a little disappointing is that someone should start a thread with this title. Tom Pope is the third highest scorer in the club's history. To use the word "myth" in relation to his contribution to the club is harsh in the extreme in my opinion.

[fuzzyvalefan]

Can I just say one more thing. Just because Pope is in the team doesn’t mean we have to play hoof ball. Poppy is as good on the ground as anyone. I don’t get this nonsense that we can only play long ball when Pope is playing. It’s boll.ocks. The fact that we do tend to go long when Pope is playing suggests that we have a lot of players who lack invention, courage and imagination, look up and see Pope and think ‘yeah I’ll just go the easy option.’

[man in the pub]

100% correct.

 

Laughable that a striker for the least prolific team in the EFL can have such influence. Our last good performance (and win) was at Crawley when, surprise surprise, Tom Pope did not feature.

 

Tom Pope has recently been out injured for several games, how did the experiment work in his absence.

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Tom Pope has recently been out injured for several games, how did the experiment work in his absence.

 

We produced an excellent win at Crawley.

[Grumpy Old Man]

We produced an excellent win at Crawley.

 

Miller played very well that day but how often has that happened?

[Robbie Earle's Perm]

Miller played very well that day but how often has that happened?

 

Well the next game he behaved like a tool, arguably lost us the game and cost himself three games out. He owes us against Tranmere unless Askey plays 9 centre halves and Pope!

[jjvale_03]

Tom Pope has recently been out injured for several games, how did the experiment work in his absence.

 

Excellently down at Crawley where we won, kept a clean sheet and had a togetherness rarely seen with Barking Pope on the pitch.