Match Thread - Port Vale v Oldham Athletic

[CAVALIER]

Last season was dreadful, but one of the things I thought was promising on reflection was the relationship formed on the flanks between full backs and wingers. Worrall and Gibbons in particular seemed to have a great understanding, then when Aspin converted Monty to left back, him and Hannant did well also. Along with Popes goals, I'd have said our 2nd most influential player was David Worrall. Was/is there a better crosser of the ball at the club? Aspin hasn't a clue what to do now, as has been stated, he seems a dead man walking. I was all for giving him until the summer as he has then had 2 summer windows to release/keep/sign who he wants, but the utter dross being served up now, this long into his reign, makes me think he's actually out of his depth, which is a shame, as I loved the player. How can a guy who played with two flying wingers in our glory days NOT even try to recreate it over a period of more than a few games, especially when he (rightly) persists with Pope up front. Also, Kay cannot play as one of a two in CM, the blokes 36. I could understand the thinking on sticking him in front of a back 3, allowing the full backs (as in actual full backs) pushing on, but not as a 2 in CM, hes not got the legs. No-one but the people inside the club know what goes on on a day to day basis, I'm training, personal lives etc, but jesus wept, we have the personnel to play in their correct positions, so give them a run of games to get their match fitness up, relationships going again.

 

4-4-2

 

1. Brown

2. Gibbons (RB)

3. Montano/Clark (LB)

4. Legge (CB)

5. Rawlinson/Smith (CB)

6. Oyeleke (CM)

7. Worrall (RW)

8. Conlon/Hannant (CM)

9. Pope

10. New striker signed in Jan

11. Whitfield/Hannant (LW)

 

Obviously injuries and suspensions happen, but as a 1st eleven, no-one can tell me that wouldn't be a top half team, with the correct manager in charge, tactics applied and the new striker has slightly more success than Miller!

Common sense approach there. Problem is that he has his favourites and they'll play come what may

[Hagrid]

Nice to see my thread has been locked, as one of the admins didn't like a discussion of whether a captain should be abusing people on Twitter, resplendent with foul language.

 

Pope's still at it on Twitter.

 

Think that'll do me. I've fought the fight for a few years on here to no avail, and apathy reigns.

 

Been a pleasure OVF. Best of luck.

[CambridgeDon]

Like many, so angry was I yesterday, though it best to comment only after measured reflection, something overnight that perhaps our skipper would have been advised to do.

We can all blame the chairman for many things, and he certainly makes it easy to do so, and for the fans perspective, pointing the finger of blame in his direction on many issues, has become expediently fashionable, and in many instances rightly so. But am sorry, as much as we would all want to see a new owner, he can't be blamed for this turgid dross being served up on the pitch week after week. Yes, he did appoint Aspin, but at the time, was it not an appointment that met with nearly universal approval?

 

We were all to happy to ignore the numerous warnings and prophecies of footballing doom aired from our friends at Gateshead, because frankly, in Aspin, the player, Aspin the legend, we trusted. On reflection, how foolish were we to do so, because in truth, what we are now being subjected to, and I choose that word very carefully, is not football, not as I know it, and even the most sycophantic and happy clapping Aspin supporter, even if they refuse to do so publicly, will agree, and enough is enough.

 

Putting aside, square pegs in round holes, continuing with the same players even when so many are playing so poorly, lack of any creativity, offensive desire and or lack of any chances made,apparent fall out with players, continuing run of dire results and worse, the performances that contribute to those results. Let's even ignore how many times Aspin stands in front of a microphone telling us all that the performances are unacceptable, but simultaneously never doing anything about it, and or worse, simultaneously never taking responsibility for any of it.

 

The fact is, if he doesn't walk away now, which seems unlikely, and or if Smurf doesn't immediately force his hand, we are now in genuine danger of playing the likes of Maidstone and Borehamwood next year and if at all possible, that can't be allowed to happen, we have to get in a new manager and we have to get him in now. Will by doing so, it guarantee our safety, will it inject some new excitement or positivity into the club and team?

No of course it won't, but the flip side of that, is that there is certainly more chance of that being the case than it would be if Neil continues.

 

Some are insisting we need stability (one, though surely a wind up, suggested we should wait five years before judging him!!!)but what in 15 months, rhetorically asked what has changed?

We were promised entertaining football, but given the opposite, we were told when he's made his mark squad wise it will lead to consistency and improved results, but guess what, it hasn't. Performances are getting demonstrably worse not better, and the stats during his tenure, normally the yard stick for the longevity of any manager makes for quite humiliating reading. Mourinho was sacked with a winning match ratio of 57%, yet Neil with what, 18%/19% is still clinging onto his job, no wonder we are so utterly frustrated.

 

His post match comments yesterday, suggest he knows he is a dead man walking, and for such a legend, the lack of fire, or even enthusiasm was extremely hard to listen to. However, as a pragmatist and for the good of the club, we (and Smurf) have to ignore that, have to take out the emotion and sadness we must surely all feel listening to such a proud man almost broken by the disappointment of it all, and do whats best for the club, especially as the clear lack of passion and fire demonstrated has clearly affected not just by the body language of the players but their performances.

How on earth players of the ability of Manny, Monty, Pope, Clarke and the like, so badly, and now so consistently, under perform to the level we now witness. What is, or has, Aspin done to them, to make them play so badly?

 

Some supporters are even suggesting they are doing so purposely, in some kind of contrived attempt to hasten his exit, what a load of old tosh. No professional footballer, even at our level would do that surely. However it is sadly incontestable, individually and collectively that the majority (Brown apart)are playing way beneath their capabilities, and am afraid, that is down, as a recent thread suggested, to the manager and the apparent lack of his man management and or motivation abilities, and the sooner he goes the better it will hopefully be. This can't continue.

 

You're right - it can't continue and I don't think we'll have to wait too long before Aspin will be gone. Our five fixtures in December against teams in the lower half of L2 gave him the chance to build up a bank of points to offset the difficult fixtures we face in January. He failed to do so and, on our present form, I wouldn't be surprised to see us lose all four against Lincoln, Colchester, Carlisle and even Crawley. That would mean six defeats in a row, three points out of 27, and his departure a foregone conclusion.

 

Norman, though, if he's got any sense will realise that it may be better to act before then, largely because the window will be closed after January, presenting any incoming manager with the disincentive of a squad which he has no opportunity to change. Unless Norman wants to see the value of the club plummet and his investment (whatever it is) go with it, he has to make sure he finds an experienced manager who would be prepared to come to the club in our current dire circumstances. That takes money - a decent salary, funds for players in the window, and a rebuilding budget for the summer. It's all starting to look a bit expensive but, of course, it's either that or financial disaster. Yet another inexperienced manager will almost certainly spell curtains for the club.

 

So maybe, just maybe, we will see some positive news before long unless Norman decides to take a massive, irrational risk with the club's future and his own money, when it all could be avoided. We will see.

[pjg1876]

Nice to see my thread has been locked, as one of the admins didn't like a discussion of whether a captain should be abusing people on Twitter, resplendent with foul language.

 

Pope's still at it on Twitter.

 

Think that'll do me. I've fought the fight for a few years on here to no avail, and apathy reigns.

 

Been a pleasure OVF. Best of luck.

 

Players, particularly the captain, should not be engaging in foul mouthed and abusive rants at their own teams fans. Silence is the best way to shut any abusive fans up. We’ve seen what happened when Smurthwaite used to take to twitter. Some folk never learn.

[Guest TommyMac]

Nice to see my thread has been locked, as one of the admins didn't like a discussion of whether a captain should be abusing people on Twitter, resplendent with foul language.

 

Pope's still at it on Twitter.

 

Think that'll do me. I've fought the fight for a few years on here to no avail, and apathy reigns.

 

Been a pleasure OVF. Best of luck.

 

The two that need to locked are the 'get Ainsworth in' and 'talk about Norman' threads.

 

Both are utterly pointless; Ainsworth ain't coming here and Smurthwaite is going nowhere until he decides he is going.

 

No-one can sack Norman he ******* owns everything remember? He couldn't care less about Vale and probably takes a morbid satisfaction reading posts demanding he sells up. The land PVFC stands on is the only asset he cares about, the club can drop to the Northern Premier for all he cares. I certainly wouldn't put it past him to be laughing tears into his sherry at some of the things he reads on here.

[dantheman]

When the players are on the pitch and in good positions and fail to deliver a quality ball than at that moment in time he can't be accountable. What can he do about it?, pick someone else but there aren't many creative options available at the club and the transfer window virtually prohibits him doing anything until the January transfer window

 

Or drill them on crossing the ball. It quite clearly isn’t a tactic and not how we are set up. God knows how we are set up to be fair, I can’t figure it out.

[Paul6754]

You’ve got your head in the sand. That’s just making a sweeping statement to blame the players. So they get into good positions constantly and consistently they fail to deliver every time? That’s the main issue is it and that’s why we’re playing so badly?

 

If you don't know the players who are in the team and who's primary/main job it is to provide the flair, quality and to create then don't enter into discussion on a football Message Board, Lge 2 PVFC isn't "Total Football". Who said "They get into good positions constantly and consistently", those are your words. My words are when they do get into good positions the flair players often fail to deliver a quality ball, I've been saying this for a while, Sprowy and Ray Williams said the same the last two games.

 

Frustratingly when Vale have good spells of play we don't score and let teams of the hook as the final ball is often not good enough or the shot goes wide (eg Quigley vs Grimsby etc). Goals change games, yesterday their 2nd was the real killer. So in terms of heads in sand, I suggest you take yours out and your neck as well.

 

Can you not see that we have no game plan to get us into good positions more often?

These are your opinions not facts. How do you know, are you in the dressing room before the games, on the training pitch, present at meetings to discuss tactics, constantly in communication with Aspin and his coaches?

 

Can you not see that in order to get into good positions you need movement and players in their familiar positions all over the pitch? With no width, wingers or players who can play through sides we aimlessly go long.

 

Well I could have sworn on Saturday that Hannant, Montano and Whitfield all started and were still on the pitch at the end of the game, Oyeleke tried hard to link Vale together and going forward. Vassell was out of position, one player out of 11, ffs.

 

We are a side that looks disjointed, that looks like it doesn’t know what it’s doing, that has no shape, no way of playing other than hit it long and hope.

 

I agree on some of these points. We do look disjointed at times, particularly yesterday, is this lack of confidence? I wish Aspin would play full backs at full back, we got caught yesterday on two counts at left full back. Vale do tend to lose shape when we go a goal down especially in the 2nd half and/or are pushing forward for a goal but that happens to all teams at all levels, against Grimsby and Oldham we got caught on the counter. It's why many teams play on the counter particularly away from home.

 

 

we do not work through the week on what our identity is and what each players role in that is. We do not work on what the opposition do.

 

How do you know, I'd suggest the opposite and the evidence is that we tend to play through Popey etc and yesterday at the start it was clear that the plan was to get Whitfield in particular in behind Oldham and it almost worked. After their 2nd goal Oldham dropped deeper so the space behind wasn't there hence Whitfield faded, they caught us twice on the counter.

 

We are coached in the main by Nogan. That says it all about where the start of our problems lie. Nogan and Aspin are clearly out of their depth, it’s plain as day.

 

Until 5 games ago the results were OK considering the last two seasons and the lack of transfer funds, we all want better. Fans are now shouting for Aspins head, Smurfs head (which I agree with if there is still a replacement in the wings) but if Aspo goes it's likely Rudgie will go, if you wish to make PVFC totally rudderless and plunge the club into crisis then keep shouting.

 

Teams home and away consistently play better football than us. Our tactics are embarassing. Some of the square pegs in round holes are embarassing choices. We have a decent side with the right players and some direction, but we are only going one way and the manager has made a rod for his own back. It looks like he’s lost the players to me because of the constant changing, putting people in the wrong places and their general lack of ability to set up a side and give them a plan and a way of playing.

 

Vale are on a run of 5 games without a win, we all thought Vale would pick up some wins against the likes of Cheltenham/Macc /Morecame/Grimsby but we played these teams when they'd found some form and Vale don't have a divine right to turn up and get three points.

 

I'm puzzled by some of Aspin's decisions but IMHO he has got more right than wrong and now is not the time to sack him, now is a time for calm heads and get the Vale back to winning ways, it's likely to get worse with Lincoln and Colchester as the next opponents. I'm predicting an increase in prescriptions for Prozac in Burslem.

[Valiant!]

If you don't know the players who are in the team and who's primary/main job it is to provide the flair, quality and to create then don't enter into discussion on a football Message Board, Lge 2 PVFC isn't "Total Football". Who said "They get into good positions constantly and consistently", those are your words. My words are when they do get into good positions the flair players often fail to deliver a quality ball, I've been saying this for a while, Sprowy and Ray Williams said the same the last two games.

 

Frustratingly when Vale have good spells of play we don't score and let teams of the hook as the final ball is often not good enough or the shot goes wide (eg Quigley vs Grimsby etc). Goals change games, yesterday their 2nd was the real killer. So in terms of heads in sand, I suggest you take yours out and your neck as well.

 

These are your opinions not facts. How do you know, are you in the dressing room before the games, on the training pitch, present at meetings to discuss tactics, constantly in communication with Aspin and his coaches?

 

 

 

Well I could have sworn on Saturday that Hannant, Montano and Whitfield all started and were still on the pitch at the end of the game, Oyeleke tried hard to link Vale together and going forward. Vassell was out of position, one player out of 11, ffs.

 

 

 

I agree on some of these points. We do look disjointed at times, particularly yesterday, is this lack of confidence? I wish Aspin would play full backs at full back, we got caught yesterday on two counts at left full back. Vale do tend to lose shape when we go a goal down especially in the 2nd half and/or are pushing forward for a goal but that happens to all teams at all levels, against Grimsby and Oldham we got caught on the counter. It's why many teams play on the counter particularly away from home.

 

 

 

 

How do you know, I'd suggest the opposite and the evidence is that we tend to play through Popey etc and yesterday at the start it was clear that the plan was to get Whitfield in particular in behind Oldham and it almost worked. After their 2nd goal Oldham dropped deeper so the space behind wasn't there hence Whitfield faded, they caught us twice on the counter.

 

 

 

Until 5 games ago the results were OK considering the last two seasons and the lack of transfer funds, we all want better. Fans are now shouting for Aspins head, Smurfs head (which I agree with if there is still a replacement in the wings) but if Aspo goes it's likely Rudgie will go, if you wish to make PVFC totally rudderless and plunge the club into crisis then keep shouting.

 

 

 

Vale are on a run of 5 games without a win, we all thought Vale would pick up some wins against the likes of Cheltenham/Macc /Morecame/Grimsby but we played these teams when they'd found some form and Vale don't have a divine right to turn up and get three points.

 

I'm puzzled by some of Aspin's decisions but IMHO he has got more right than wrong and now is not the time to sack him, now is a time for calm heads and get the Vale back to winning ways, it's likely to get worse with Lincoln and Colchester as the next opponents. I'm predicting an increase in prescriptions for Prozac in Burslem.

 

Lot in here slag of our manager..by stating that it’s the team he put together, he picked, he did not inherit them

 

therefore when a team is not good enough it’s totally his fault .. and maybe it is

 

but then I wonder what is the success rate on a manger bringing in new players

 

it’s certainly not 1:1 more likely 1:2 or even 1:3

 

and that’s why it takes time you bring in 3 players and maybe 1 works out so you bring in 12 and out of that 4-6 might work out

 

you never build an instant success squad,you let some go you bring some in

 

you keep rotating until you have the squad you want

 

it’s not done in one close season

 

look at any club, it takes time, but it is about how long to give him, I know??

[darren1810]

11 of us celebrated my lads 21st yesterday at a cost of knocking 700 quid.

 

My 78 year old dad made his first appearance since the Northampton game when we clinched promotion .

He was absolutely astonished at the hoofing it up and no apparent game plan.

Picked up on the awful performance of Vassel and then was as perplexed as the rest of us at the reshuffling in the second half.

 

His parting shot was that he had a lovely day out but felt that the game was non league standard and he couldn't believe how dreadful it was.

 

My response was that he pretty much summed up the last two years of suffering this tripe and the way it's going I will be joining him in no longer attending.

[Upfromnowhere]

Miller did seem worth a gamble to me. An unbelievable record in the division below, even if everything was set up for him to succeed there. It did make sense to have Pope as the target man and Miller to feed off him. I think the problem was Pope wasn't being fed in the first place, so neither he or Miller had anything to work with.

 

I have been saying similar all season, but regardless of who plays with Pope and it appears it's always going to be he +1, it can't and wont work unless we stop this aerial bombardment which, unless the second striker is also 6' plus and therefore has at least half a chance to win the second headers are never going to be conjusive to forming meaningful partnerships.

 

Wrex is right though when Miller was playing up front with Popey, he, in fact they both had next to nothing to work with and with the midfield normally toiling some 30 yards away it was a partnership doomed for failure.

This continued when young Ben stepped into the brink, he too fell foul of the same problem. A problem that temporarily changed when Aspin started pushing two wide players further forward, but alas that didn't last long.

 

Ironic that some mentioned Bowman as a possible signing the other day, who albeit a decent player by all accounts, one , on further examination, that scored half the goals that Miller did!

 

Considering how well Aspin knew Miller's game and one assumes knew exactly what he would bring to the team, the failing is perhaps not so much why he signed him, but more confusingly why he then chose to put him in a system that completely negated all his strengths!

 

Strange!

[Mario]

Whats the point of signing a new striker for Christs sake,we play hoof ball (Badly)up to Pope, any striker coming to the Vale will get splinters in his arris sitting on the bench unless Aspin changes his tactics and if he does it will mean he has changed his mind and what message does that send out that he's weak and panicking ?

[Erniemossrules]

Can’t understand why Conlon and Manny have failed to deliver what they can obviously offer.Monty and Whitfield playing up front was working first half but Aspin ruined it with his dubious substitutions.

Vassell is not good enough at left back and a liability but to move Monty back was a disaster waiting to happen.

How Aspin thinks Quigley is a game changer when he hasn’t scored in the football league and is too similar to Pope to play both together.He tried it at Macclesfield and it didn’t work.Just hope he doesn’t shuffle the pack to bring Joyce or Dodds in the team because that would make things even worse.

[darren1810]

I'll get my tin hat ready but really what has Conlon done ?

True he is an upgrade on Pugh or Tonge ( who wouldn't be ) , but the more I see of him he is lightweight and I can see why Stevenage released him.

 

For me he is a squad player at best.

Like I say I'll get my tin hat

[smithie]

I have been saying similar all season, but regardless of who plays with Pope and it appears it's always going to be he +1, it can't and wont work unless we stop this aerial bombardment which, unless the second striker is also 6' plus and therefore has at least half a chance to win the second headers are never going to be conjusive to forming meaningful partnerships.

 

 

Quigley is well over 6ft but must have been coached in heading by Reggie Cicilia.

[Sandyford_Lion]

Some good points being made about the first half, Whitfield and Monty were having a lot of joy. Whitfield especially in behind had the beating of their defence, whilst Monty definitely had the legs on their left back. So I bet their left back couldn’t believe his luck when we go and move Monty to be our left back and bring on Worrall who hasn’t played for weeks in his position. It was the right thing to do in substituting Vassell, because he was awful yet again and kept getting caught out, but it was madness to break up what was working for us in the first half. It just shows how bad our management are, because Monty like Vassell is not a left back and I’ll go so far as to say that his performances in defence earlier this season (or as a left wing back) scream “I don’t want to play in this position”.

 

Tell me one thing. If Monty had the beating of their left back, what did he do after?

He has no right foot. Having no right foot means he cannot either

1.. play full back because you have to use your right foot to defend and tackle.

He failed to do this for one of their goals yesterday

2.. play right wing because when the opposigion know you they stop you going inside and this results in you being no threat at all

Monty is a left wing for a good 5 games a year and thats it.

If only we could pick those games.