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old sage

Some of our Squad are simply not consistent enough.

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If Port Vale are to achieve a genuine promotion push then some of the squad including a few currently in the first eleven need replacing. After watching the team put up two impressive performances to simply fail to turn up at Morecambe is unforgiveable.

No disrespect to Morecambe who have an even smaller budget than us but we should be taking three points off them without too much trouble.

Montano in particular is what I call a fair weather player a great talent but if he doesn't fancy it he doesn't play up to a decent standard. I was also disappointed that Oyeleke and Conlon also failed to perform. They all talk about the need for consistency but I think that these comments are a cop out. Players like Brown, Smithie, Popey and Kaye always give 100% even when not playing particularly well but many of the others can't say the same I'm afraid.

I suppose that many will say that it is a lack of age and experience but I believe that 'If you are good enough you are old enough'.

Players like Worrall and Joyce came with good reputations but these two have been a massive let down and by and large not earning their wage. If they don't like it in the Potteries they would be best moving on and being replaced with a couple more 100% players.

I really feel sorry for the players already mentioned who 'work their socks off' only to be let down by the rest of the team.

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Agree with that, you could also say that is why Aspin changes the team so much, to try and get the players to realize that form equals a start in the 1st eleven and sub-par performances will get you dropped.

 

Those that show a complete lack of consistency need to realize, even at this level 7 out of 10 may be good enough, but anything less on a semi-regular basis will mean you’ll be looking for a Job come the summer.

 

Take the likes of Pope, Brown the reason they’ve had long league careers is they always get at least 7. Out of 10. Luke Hannant at his age he is consistently up there as a 7+ out of 10 and he’s being watched my a number of clubs.

 

It’s pain staking knowing that on their day ‘most’ players are very capable, but not turning up every 2-3 games is unacceptable!!!

 

If we could put a run together we’d easily make the playoffs, but there is zero chance of that! (I hope I eat these words :))

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It’s league two, if the likes of Monty were consistent they would be at a higher level and that’s the unfortunate side of it.

 

Ultimately we are 10 clear of the drop with 2 of the bottom 3 left to play once, already over half way to safety which is the first target and clearly far improved in general from last season.

 

We are a work in progress and next season for me personally will be the one where I feel after four windows Aspin will have to deliver a play off push minimum as it will be fully his squad by then.

 

Foundation wise it’s not too bad, great keeper, improved defence and a solid midfield.

 

It needs work going forward in the next two windows (Jan and the summer) if we can get that right we will be on the right path.

 

If you want consistency unfortunately your supporting the wrong level of club.

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[quote=valefan16;840118

 

 

 

If you want consistency unfortunately your supporting the wrong level of club. A team can be consistent at any level whether it be L2 or the Premiership. I hear this quote on inconsistency all too often. It just gives the inconsistent players an excuse in my opinion.

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Unless the manager is allowed to shop in the High St instead of the usual array of market stalls, no number of transfer windows will make too much difference.

 

As rightly pointed out by V16 above, players lack of consistency is why most are regulars at this level or even below. You will not change that.

 

Unfortunately, you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. So that then brings us to the old chestnut. The level of investment afforded to the manager.

:yes:

Edited by RailwayRowdy

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We are able to perform at a much higher level of capability but not regularly, I don’t think that is down to individual players but rather a lack of strength in depth.

 

Look back at our league 1 era. We had players we could only dream of in today’s starting 11, sitting on the bench. However I don’t think our strongest 11 in league 2 is that far off our best league 1 team.

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Fair comment. We have 5-6 individuals picking up wages who will never get in the first team, we cannot substantiate that. Will be interesting who comes in at January but more importantly who goes. After the last two January windows I am not holding my breath.

We are able to perform at a much higher level of capability but not regularly, I don’t think that is down to individual players but rather a lack of strength in depth.

 

Look back at our league 1 era. We had players we could only dream of in today’s starting 11, sitting on the bench. However I don’t think our strongest 11 in league 2 is that far off our best league 1 team.

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Just a case of, after the Lord mayor's show, a lot of hype and adrenalin was put into Tuesdays match, invariably as with most clubs, the next match is a little flat. Not concerned, we have the nucleus of a good young starting 11 which is improving. Top seven Is definitely achievable, just need to continue this current run of picking up points.

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Monty is going to give you spells of quality, and spells of turgid.

 

People seem continually baffled by talented wingers being inconsistent in League 2. We had the same arguments about JMW.

 

The likes of Monty and JMW are confidence-driven players who are going to be massively up and down. We largely have a squad of workmanlike players; you need a JMW or Monty to provide the spark that can win you games. Part of the payoff is that he'll be anonymous the following week. I have no qualms with Monty basically winning us the last 2 games by himself (2 goals v Yeovil, 2 goals + 1 assist vs the Bog Batterers), and will pick up again around Xmas.

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Saw the Swindon game where for once Swindon where poor and there for the taking, but not by us. Listened to the Yeovil game and on hearing our team expected nothing and was pleasantly surprised by the result. Again listened to the Morecambe game and probably like most was hoping for a victory. OK because they have lower crowds and a smaller budget doesn't mean an automatic 3 points but isn't a bigger budget the argument most managers use to produce better results. Yes we have a lot of free players/dented tins which I suppose translates into you don't know what you will get. However if most of us turned into work and regularly did half a job then we wouldn't be there for long. Are they that bad or is it more about better man management.Whilst Aspin was always a 100% player I do worry what Aspin says to the players before and at halftime.

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Saw the Swindon game where for once Swindon where poor and there for the taking, but not by us. Listened to the Yeovil game and on hearing our team expected nothing and was pleasantly surprised by the result. Again listened to the Morecambe game and probably like most was hoping for a victory. OK because they have lower crowds and a smaller budget doesn't mean an automatic 3 points but isn't a bigger budget the argument most managers use to produce better results. Yes we have a lot of free players/dented tins which I suppose translates into you don't know what you will get. However if most of us turned into work and regularly did half a job then we wouldn't be there for long. Are they that bad or is it more about better man management.Whilst Aspin was always a 100% player I do worry what Aspin says to the players before and at halftime.

 

That kind of comparison to 'if I didn't perform in my job I'd be sacked' annoys me tbh. It's sport. It's 11 v 11, you are competing against the opposition. If you are a delivery driver, for example, you don't have that. You are giving a route that hopefully is manageable if you drive competently. You don't have another delivery driver competing against you to deliver the goods before you.

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If Port Vale are to achieve a genuine promotion push then some of the squad including a few currently in the first eleven need replacing. After watching the team put up two impressive performances to simply fail to turn up at Morecambe is unforgiveable.

No disrespect to Morecambe who have an even smaller budget than us but we should be taking three points off them without too much trouble.

Montano in particular is what I call a fair weather player a great talent but if he doesn't fancy it he doesn't play up to a decent standard. I was also disappointed that Oyeleke and Conlon also failed to perform. They all talk about the need for consistency but I think that these comments are a cop out. Players like Brown, Smithie, Popey and Kaye always give 100% even when not playing particularly well but many of the others can't say the same I'm afraid.

I suppose that many will say that it is a lack of age and experience but I believe that 'If you are good enough you are old enough'.

Players like Worrall and Joyce came with good reputations but these two have been a massive let down and by and large not earning their wage. If they don't like it in the Potteries they would be best moving on and being replaced with a couple more 100% players.

I really feel sorry for the players already mentioned who 'work their socks off' only to be let down by the rest of the team.

 

In the case of Oyeleke and Conlon they're young players learning their trade and it was more of a bad day at the office than a lack of regular, week in week out consistency, only time will tell.

 

Montanyo is a different kettle of fish, he's capable of great and sublime skill, the cross field pass for Worrall to score for Vale last season at VP was brilliant, few players are capable of playing such a pass, particularly at this level. However he's a "Typical winger", somedays he's on and some he's off hence an inconsistent player, I just accept it and hope if it's not his day Aspo subs him.

 

I always remember Alf Ramsey's wingless wonders, he chose to play with no wingers because they could be inconsistent despite having some superb wingers at his disposal in Ian Callaghan and Terry Paine, he chose not to include Peter Thompson in his squad.

 

I don't know what's going on with Worrall, last season he played well and looked a good aquisition. IMHO, Joyce is a no frills type of player, keeps the ball moving and plays it the way he's facing, he'll do a job for Vale over the season without being spectacular.

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I think it's a great point made in the opening post, and very valid, but now find myself pondering the possible synergies between said individual inconsistencies and the continual inconsistencies in team selection and or team tactics and how much they contribute to the performances.

 

Foe example, will Gibbo be bombed the minute Clarke returns from injury and does he know he will?

Similarly who will make way for Legge when he comes back, and do those fighting for a place at CH think that regardless of how well they play one's going to lose out?

I remember Asps telling everyone how a couple of goals will give Miller a boost of confidence then dropped him, would that affect the lad?

Similarly with Whitfield who started 3,4 games on the bounce,and personally I thought did really well, but has hardly featured at all these past few games, and now sees a full back taking his place up front/out wide and on Saturday saw Quigs, who most would suggest should be released in a couple of weeks, get the nod in front of him, when we had to chase the game, how shot must his confidence be?

Do players like Manny, Smith, Rawlinson, Conlon, Monty and most definitely Hannant, feel that whatever happens and even they have a stinker, if fit they are going to start the next game, and if they feel that where then is any incentive?

 

I think the answer to most is yes, and with that fear, or armed with that level of comfort, could that possibly be a big part of the reason why so many great performances can, and invariably are followed by a right stinker?

 

Do they trust the manager, do they believe his team talks, do they buy in to the negative tactics he sends them out to follow, can the boss motivate them properly. I ask that because Aspin the player wouldn't have put up with some of the spinless bilge being offered by his players, yet Aspin the manager appears to.....strange isn't it?

Edited by Upfromnowhere

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I think it's a great point made in the opening post, and very valid, but now find myself pondering the possible synergies between said individual inconsistencies and the continual inconsistencies in team selection and or team tactics and how much they contribute to the performances.

 

Foe example, will Gibbo be bombed the minute Clarke returns from injury and does he know he will?

Similarly who will make way for Legge when he comes back, and do those fighting for a place at CH think that regardless of how well they play one's going to lose out?

I remember Asps telling everyone how a couple of goals will give Miller a boost of confidence then dropped him, would that affect the lad?

Similarly with Whitfield who started 3,4 games on the bounce,and personally I thought did really well, but has hardly featured at all these past few games, and now sees a full back taking his place up front/out wide and on Saturday saw Quigs, who most would suggest should be released in a couple of weeks, get the nod in front of him, when we had to chase the game, how shot must his confidence be?

Do players like Manny, Smith, Rawlinson, Conlon, Monty and most definitely Hannant, feel that whatever happens and even they have a stinker, if fit they are going to start the next game, and if they feel that where then is any incentive?

 

I think the answer to most is yes, and with that fear, or armed with that level of comfort, could that possibly be a big part of the reason why so many great performances can, and invariably are followed by a right stinker?

 

Do they trust the manager, do they believe his team talks, do they buy in to the negative tactics he sends them out to follow, can the boss motivate them properly. I ask that because Aspin the player wouldn't have put up with some of the spinless bilge being offered by his players, yet Aspin the manager appears to.....strange isn't it?

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think Aspin clearly has his favourites. Hannant it seems is undroppable no matter how many bad performances he turns in and he has had a few recently IMO. Monty is a liability, he isn't up for it if he gets kicked or its cold. On his day he can be good, but he should be one of the talismen of the squad, hes not a kid or inexperienced like Whitfield for example. To be honest giving Monty a role that means he has to also track back means that can expose our full back and that happened against Stoke and at Morecambe. I think Conlons drifted in and out of games this last few weeks too with little effect. Theres no doubt Legge will come back in when hes fit, that’s a given, which will probably mean Rawlinson going to right back and I’d imagine Clark to left back. Personally I don’t think Gibbons has let us down, I love to see players like that who show more desire & passion for the shirt and energy to get up the pitch, even though he sometimes lacks a bit of quality on the ball which Clark has. A few mistakes aside Clarks been steady, but I wouldn’t say hes struck me as a player whos been busting a gut for the cause all season, sometimes its like he knows he’s not going to be staying anyway. Yet at the moment I’d like to see both Clark and Gibbons as left and right backs respectively, that would give us some real energy if they can overlap, but I think Aspin will only go with one of those and play one of the centre halves as the other full back.

 

If Gibbons or Vassel get dropped next week then that automatically sends out the message that they’re being scapegoated for the Morecambe game, yet for anyone who was there would know that’s a bit unfair. The problem positions aren't the full backs, like I said in my comments over the weekend we could all see what the issues were, the players we rely to do something for us in Hannant, Monty, Manny and Conlon didn’t do it. When they aren’t on it then we stall as a team and the formation becomes negative as players tend to drop back. For me they’ve been the most inconsistent members as a group in terms of affecting games, as they all need to play well for the system to work. As we saw on Saturday when they play badly our options dry up completely when we have the ball. If that was Whitfield or Miller playing like that they’d be dropped the next week.

Edited by PV1973

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That kind of comparison to 'if I didn't perform in my job I'd be sacked' annoys me tbh. It's sport. It's 11 v 11, you are competing against the opposition. If you are a delivery driver, for example, you don't have that. You are giving a route that hopefully is manageable if you drive competently. You don't have another delivery driver competing against you to deliver the goods before you.

 

Understand your comparison. I worked for a steel company selling the stuff to customers. If however the competition sold more than me to my customers then my firm struggled. If I was really bad at it then trust me I would have been sacked.

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Of course players at this level are going to be inconsistent. Its about how many at any one time underperform. On Saturday it seems there were several key players that didn't turn up so it was always going to be a struggle. If there was only one or maybe two players out of sorts then you can manage that but when 4 or 5 are not performing as they can then you are likely to lose that game.

All those players on Saturday are capable of beating anyone in this division and the league above when they are on their game. To get all those players being on form and playing to their potential at the same time at this level is no easy task.

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Of course players at this level are going to be inconsistent. Its about how many at any one time underperform. On Saturday it seems there were several key players that didn't turn up so it was always going to be a struggle. If there was only one or maybe two players out of sorts then you can manage that but when 4 or 5 are not performing as they can then you are likely to lose that game.

All those players on Saturday are capable of beating anyone in this division and the league above when they are on their game. To get all those players being on form and playing to their potential at the same time at this level is no easy task.

 

That's why they are playing in this league.

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Understand your comparison. I worked for a steel company selling the stuff to customers. If however the competition sold more than me to my customers then my firm struggled. If I was really bad at it then trust me I would have been sacked.

 

Well yes and footballers too are judged over a longer period. If they don't perform this season they will be released. But we are all allowed one "bad day at the office" and League Two footballers you have to expect to have more bad days than most, else they'd be League One/Championship players.

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