Current Squad

[Fosse69]

We do send players out locally, most first year pros go somewhere. One of the issues is the club they go to have to feel they are better than they have. A few have gone out and not got a lot of games. Van der Laan will only play Benns if he's an upgrade on what he has. Quite a few young players we've released at 19 or 20 have failed at Newcastle Town the following season.

As with the players we take on loan, if they are not better than we have, we cant play then and reduce our chances of winning. Sub appearances maybe the limit.

[philmpv]

Disappointed that we lost out on Christian Dennis. More so when you read the quote from Smurf:

 

He said: "Chesterfield put a price on him, we met 90 per cent of the price, but we wouldn't meet the wage demands of the player which would have made him, historically, one of the highest paid players in the last 15 years. So, Neil said no.

 

He states “we wouldn’t meet the wage demands and then claims Neil said “No”. Which is it?

 

Frankly I am staggered that Aspin would turn down the chance to sign a proven, decent player.

 

Especially as the spoken of alternatives are all non league cast offs.

 

Our goals scoring rate last season, Pope aside was appalling.

0800 58 58 58. Ring this number dude. If anybody needs this type of assistance it's you. Christ, I've known happier turkeys at Christmas

[valeparklife]

We do send players out locally, most first year pros go somewhere. One of the issues is the club they go to have to feel they are better than they have. A few have gone out and not got a lot of games. Van der Laan will only play Benns if he's an upgrade on what he has. Quite a few young players we've released at 19 or 20 have failed at Newcastle Town the following season.

Yeah we do send them out but only ever on short term loans. I'm talking about our pros belonging to another club for a full season, playing against players whose careers and income is on the line.

 

I have watched a lot of local non league football to know that those 3 players I have mentioned are talented enough to do well there but depends on attitude and application and if they have the 'fight' and professionalism which is why most young pros fail.

[PV1993]

Luke Dennis had a full season last year?

 

I agree in part but Turners loan needs to be far higher up the league pyramid

[TJHValiant]

You know so much about him that you can’t even spell his name correctly.

 

Well, i’m certainly not going to be knowing anymore about him until Notts County turn up.

 

Knew more about him than some of the recent non league nobodies anyone has seen play.

[TJHValiant]

0800 58 58 58. Ring this number dude. If anybody needs this type of assistance it's you. Christ, I've known happier turkeys at Christmas

 

Are you happy at a series of cheap signings and a chairman with enough free money around to build pubs or buy the ground of another club?

 

I’m not. Anyone who is. I’m very pleased for you all.

[TJHValiant]

Paying him more than Pope would have probably had an adverse effect on the whole team. He’s had one good season so not worth that risk in my opinion.

 

I have not heard he’d be paid more than Pope? Besides Pope is in the last year of his deal and probably signed for less than any other player of his calibre would due to Vale ties.

 

Having said that, that’s actually a fair point. Dennis’ track record prior to last season isn’t great.

[TJHValiant]

It could well be that with our budget it would have been Dennis and nobody else. Part of managing at our level is squeezing as much as possible from the money available. It's the way at nearly every club.

 

It’s the lack of Smurf transparency that peeves me. He could have stated that himself if it were true or something along those lines.

[PV1973]

Something I've always wondered is why we don't have closer links with the local non-league clubs and send players there on season long loans.

 

Newcastle Town would be ideal with Van Der Laan in charge there to send Turner, Calverley and Benns there on a season long loan.

 

They get 3 players who would surely be more than useful at that level. They could still train full time with us and also take part in their part-time sessions.

 

We get to develop our players playing regularly against men that want to win in games that matter. Pope's dad had him playing in a man's league when he was 14 which he said really toughened him up and prepared him for first team action. Nathan Smith developed 10 fold during his 44+ games at Torquay.

 

It's win-win for everyone.

We pretty much already do that, but not for such a long period.

 

Recently we've seen players develop at different rates, Gibbons only played for a short while at Leek before making the jump to league two, whilst on the other hand Smith had 2 seasons away with Stafford and Torquay before playing league one football.

 

Reeves was out locally and at Wrexham, played a few games for us in the relegation season, but was let go.

 

Turner came on to the scene quickly, but arguably didn't develop much last season. I think that sending him somewhere like Newcastle Town for such a long time isn't all that beneficial, he needs to be playing at a higher level to prove himself. Normally we'd see a steady progression from a month or 2 at somewhere like Kidsgrove, Newcastle or Leek to then stepping up to a Conference North side or Conference maybe. Turners done that, he scored goals at Kidgrove a couple of seasons ago, yet didn't have the best of times when he went out last season (Tamworth I think). So I think he will go out on loan to Conference level or equivalent. Because this season is massive for him, arguably make or break.

 

I think even Dior could be in that position too, will this season be his breakthrough or does he need to go out for a while?

 

I think as a first year pro that Benns will benefit from going out locally for a while, maybe not a whole season though, just a couple of months.

 

Calveley played at that level last season and needs to go higher for experience, he may even have gone to Stafford last season too.

[CambridgeDon]

We are a 4th division club looking to have a maximum squad size of 24. If he isn't good enough to be on the bench this season (never said start) then he needs to move on to allow someone younger chance to develop. Whitfield is with a Premiership Club where 30 plus players in a squad are normal and wages for young players are minimal in terms of overall budget. I suspect Burton were already planning for division one when they gave Harness a new contract at Christmas. He's played quite a lot for them in division 1, so they must be fairly confident he'll be in their squad most games.

 

In the last 45 years I haven't seen a player come good at Vale who hasn't been a regular in the squad before the age of 21. There have been a few who've hung around past that age without making it and a few more who've been on the bench when everyone is fit at that age and worked their way in to a regular position. Non League football won't make him physically stronger, he's been a professional athlete for 4 years so he's had plenty of time to work on that, Morsy did a couple of hours after training every day, so you'd hope Turner had had the sense to do the same if it is an issue. It might toughen him up and give him some experience, but his two most recent loan moves to conference north teams ended with him becoming an unused sub after a few games. Hopefully he'll have kicked on over the summer as I think there is a player in there somewhere. But at some point he needs to show something more consistently next year for us to keep him. Sending him on loan costs the club a fair chunk of his wages, in the same way teams higher up pay most of their players wage when they come to us to gain experience, so there has to come a point when we move on. Strikers may peak at 25, but the vast majority who come through from youth teams in division one and two are at least regular substitutes somewhere between 20 and 21.

 

I agree - going to a non-league club won't make him physically stronger but it might (and it's up to him) make him mentally tougher, more competitive and more determined. These are some of the reasons clubs send players on loan and Turner would probably benefit from an extended spell of really competitive football in a lower league. But he has to go with a different mindset than he's showing at the moment. I was surprised to see how many appearances he's made and how few comparative goals, though this is probably a function of the number of times he's been on as a sub. Starting regularly and playing 90 minutes is more than likely the medicine he needs.

[pjg1876]

Disappointed that we lost out on Christian Dennis. More so when you read the quote from Smurf:

 

He said: "Chesterfield put a price on him, we met 90 per cent of the price, but we wouldn't meet the wage demands of the player which would have made him, historically, one of the highest paid players in the last 15 years. So, Neil said no.

 

 

I have not heard he’d be paid more than Pope?

Having said that, that’s actually a fair point. Dennis’ track record prior to last season isn’t great.

 

He'd be paid more than Pope if he was one of the highest paid players from the last 15 years per your earlier post

[PV1973]

Think you're right about Turner. I watched him in our first game at Crawley, where he scored a very good goal, and then in our last at Cambridge when he came on as a sub. He showed good control and a fair bit of skill but it was particularly evident at Cambridge, where they had two strapping lads at the back, how easily he was knocked off the ball. They simply brushed him aside like a young lad. So yes, he has plenty of work to do in pre-season, particularly in the toughening up department. He could make it but it's over to him to make an early impact. He has a lot to do!

Agreed, at times it was literally men against boys. But thats exactly what he is at the moment because he hasn't got years and years of gym work and experience behind him. Not only does he need game time against men to gain that know how, he also needs to put some muscle on and get bigger to cope with League two, but you can't rush that side of things. They'll be doing stuff in the gym in the off season, but once pre-season and the season proper starts its not so easy to spend a lot of time in the gym due to recovery time with games and training coming thick and fast.

 

Turner isn’t our player, no new contract signed as yet!! But I agree that if he stays, he needs 6 months on loan somewhere to gain the required strength, experience and goals to succeed in this league

Hes signed.

[Heatwave]

Kristian Dennis wasn't worth us breaking our wage structure for. Good yes, but not that good IMHO.

 

County might just have done what we did with a few in the last couple of years.

[valiant_593]

Disappointed that we lost out on Christian Dennis. More so when you read the quote from Smurf:

 

He said: "Chesterfield put a price on him, we met 90 per cent of the price, but we wouldn't meet the wage demands of the player which would have made him, historically, one of the highest paid players in the last 15 years. So, Neil said no.

 

He states “we wouldn’t meet the wage demands and then claims Neil said “No”. Which is it?

 

Frankly I am staggered that Aspin would turn down the chance to sign a proven, decent player.

 

Especially as the spoken of alternatives are all non league cast offs.

 

Our goals scoring rate last season, Pope aside was appalling.

 

That’s settled then let’s offer a league 2 player 5k a week. Bloody mad. If the lad wanted to much then move on.

[JRC]

Agreed, at times it was literally men against boys. But thats exactly what he is at the moment because he hasn't got years and years of gym work and experience behind him. Not only does he need game time against men to gain that know how, he also needs to put some muscle on and get bigger to cope with League two, but you can't rush that side of things. They'll be doing stuff in the gym in the off season, but once pre-season and the season proper starts its not so easy to spend a lot of time in the gym due to recovery time with games and training coming thick and fast.

 

 

Hes signed.

 

Sam Morsy managed to do plenty of gym time which was why he was so hard to knock off the ball. Join the Royal Marines at 18 and you'll have plenty of strength at 20. Getting experience is one thing but if he needs to build strength after 4 years at the club he's lacking in dedication. Anyone whose passed through military basic training will know that strength can be built pretty quickly, it's just working at it. A lot of footballers do gym work on there upper body in the afternoons after training. A lot of Vale players used to use Esporta and there were Vale and Stoke players in Greens when I was living in Stoke full time. I said in March Turner was worth another year but if he's just sitting around hoping muscles grow in the afternoons we really should have got rid. At 20 he isn't a boy, plenty of men fought in Iraq and Afghanistan who were under 20, many lacked experience but nobody ever let them use a lack of strength as an excuse.