Mass school shooting in US again

[Paul6754]

DOnt disagree with most of that, apart from if its the will of 90% of the population, then change can and should happen easily. Not overnight, but it will be inevitable. And its one thing saying on a poll taken after a school shooting that you want change, and then months later voting for their NRA sponsored republican politician. People are what they do, not what they say.

 

There's no time scale on inevitable.

 

The vast majority of Americans want more stringent gun controls, that's the bottom line. It's up to the politicians to get it done..

 

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/02/589849342/npr-poll-after-parkland-number-of-americans-who-want-gun-restrictions-grows

 

http://time.com/5167216/americans-gun-control-support-poll-2018/

[Andyregs]

There's no time scale on inevitable.

 

The vast majority of Americans want more stringent gun controls, that's the bottom line. It's up to the politicians to get it done..

 

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/02/589849342/npr-poll-after-parkland-number-of-americans-who-want-gun-restrictions-grows

 

http://time.com/5167216/americans-gun-control-support-poll-2018/

 

My only issue with those polls is that they are conducted in the aftermath of a shooting. I can agree that a majority want stricter gun laws. What I’m not sure about is what each persons definition of stricter gun laws are, and whether they are willing to take that into consideration at the next election. Because that’s the only way to actually do something about it rather than taking a survey. One persons definition of gun laws could be to restrict the sales to known criminals and people,with diagnosed mental health issues for example. And while that is better than nothing, it doesn’t go far enough.

[Andyregs]

I’ve no doubt about that, Jean. That wasn’t what I was getting at. You are right. But my question was concerning the level of security required today, to keep children safe, compared to when you and I were at school.

 

It that’s such an irrelevant argument to make. Putting in measure to make children safe is good. It makes them safer.

People,working with kids now have to have police checks because in the past children have been abused and murdered by people who had access but shouldn’t have. It doesn’t mean that such people only existed in the past,or that it’s a modern problem because we have had to put the legislation into place, it just means that we are doing something to stop it now. We know from historical cases that such instances have always happened. We just have more protections in place. We so what we can to stop it. Whatever it takes. There isn’t the same desire with guns. Some people would rather discuss other issues and avoid the obvious if it puts their weapons arsenal under threat.

[man in the pub]

The argument seems to be that guns are not dangerous but the people who own them are. However , when you cant trust the people with guns then surely remove the guns from the people. Or carry on with an ever increasing number of mass killings. No brainer.

[Andyregs]

The argument seems to be that guns are not dangerous but the people who own them are. However , when you cant trust the people with guns then surely remove the guns from the people. Or carry on with an ever increasing number of mass killings. No brainer.

 

They are happy to allow assault rifles and machine guns, but not a kinder egg. You’ve got to protect the children you know.

[Jacko51]

I’ve no doubt about that, Jean. That wasn’t what I was getting at. You are right. But my question was concerning the level of security required today, to keep children safe, compared to when you and I were at school.

 

The level of security in my old school involves any visitors signing in at reception and a call being made to whichever member of staff they are meeting to come and collect them. This is as much about fire regulations and knowing who is in the building as anything else. No security guard on the premises, no drive by shooting drills and no kids telling the media that they were not surprised at folk being shot in their school because it happens all the time.

 

Can I ask, Tone, do you have a gun? If so, why? If not, why not?

[SuperValiant1876]

It doesn't seem to matter how many children are shot Americans won't give up their RIGHT to have a gun. It seems like a selfish mentality and any American I have seen engaging online in this sort of discussion get very defensive about having their RIGHT stripped from them even if it means more and more children are killed in schools every month. Or they suggest arming the teachers.

 

How would you have felt about being asked to carry a gun and be the first line of defence in incidents like this Jacko? I think I can guess what my mum and dad would have said (both teachers)

 

Absolutely mental the yanks.

[Paul6754]

The level of security in my old school involves any visitors signing in at reception and a call being made to whichever member of staff they are meeting to come and collect them. This is as much about fire regulations and knowing who is in the building as anything else. No security guard on the premises, no drive by shooting drills and no kids telling the media that they were not surprised at folk being shot in their school because it happens all the time.

 

Can I ask, Tone, do you have a gun? If so, why? If not, why not?

 

At the High School my kids attended visitors had to sign in and out, visitors had to be electronically let in the building and could enter only at the main entrance by the office. A volunteer from the public would man the main entrance. Also the town assigned at least one "Town Policemen" to regularly be seen around school and engage with the students at school on all matters of safety.

 

In the town I live and surrounding areas parents, staff and students are extremely proud of their High School, the schools are very much part and parcel of the community "not just a school". The Arts and Sport play a huge role in school life and there is much competition between High Schools particularly in sports. In our town if 20 students sign up for a sport then the Town/School has to fund it, we now have a cricket team.

[Jacko51]

It doesn't seem to matter how many children are shot Americans won't give up their RIGHT to have a gun. It seems like a selfish mentality and any American I have seen engaging online in this sort of discussion get very defensive about having their RIGHT stripped from them even if it means more and more children are killed in schools every month. Or they suggest arming the teachers.

 

How would you have felt about being asked to carry a gun and be the first line of defence in incidents like this Jacko? I think I can guess what my mum and dad would have said (both teachers)

 

Absolutely mental the yanks.

 

I would simply have refused. You may as well draw a target on the teacher to assist any random nutter.

[Tone]

The level of security in my old school involves any visitors signing in at reception and a call being made to whichever member of staff they are meeting to come and collect them. This is as much about fire regulations and knowing who is in the building as anything else. No security guard on the premises, no drive by shooting drills and no kids telling the media that they were not surprised at folk being shot in their school because it happens all the time.

 

Can I ask, Tone, do you have a gun? If so, why? If not, why not?

 

I don’t remember any security, at all, much as you suggest. Nowadays it’s just as necessary as security systems in homes.

 

Jean, I have never had a gun, never used a gun (except my uncle’s air rifle, when I was about 12) and have no desire for a gun. I dislike guns.

[Andyregs]

I don’t remember any security, at all, much as you suggest. Nowadays it’s just as necessary as security systems in homes.

 

Jean, I have never had a gun, never used a gun (except my uncle’s air rifle, when I was about 12) and have no desire for a gun. I dislike guns.

 

I’m not sure what your point is though. You seek to be suggesting that this is because things are so much worse now. The last school shooting in the uk happened 22 years ago? The only other attack I can think of happened in the same year, which was the machete attack in Wolverhampton. I’m not sure how having visitors sign in now means things have got worse?

What’s also interesting to note, is that in one of those attacks a man walked into school with a gun, and in the other a machete. In one of those attacks, 16 children and one teacher was killed, and in the other no one was killed. But if you listen to the gun nuts, it’s people who kill, not the gun. But it’s pretty obvious the gun helps.

[Tone]

I’m not sure what your point is though. You seek to be suggesting that this is because things are so much worse now. The last school shooting in the uk happened 22 years ago? The only other attack I can think of happened in the same year, which was the machete attack in Wolverhampton. I’m not sure how having visitors sign in now means things have got worse?

What’s also interesting to note, is that in one of those attacks a man walked into school with a gun, and in the other a machete. In one of those attacks, 16 children and one teacher was killed, and in the other no one was killed. But if you listen to the gun nuts, it’s people who kill, not the gun. But it’s pretty obvious the gun helps.

 

I think my point is that 50 years ago, in the USA, lots of people had guns. But the mass shootings are a recent phenomenon, even with added security. So what is the root cause? You are correct, the guns help, but unless they are eliminated entirely, throughout the whole country, they will be accessible when people like the Santa Fe student’s father fail to properly secure them.

[Andyregs]

I think my point is that 50 years ago, in the USA, lots of people had guns. But the mass shootings are a recent phenomenon, even with added security. So what is the root cause? You are correct, the guns help, but unless they are eliminated entirely, throughout the whole country, they will be accessible when people like the Santa Fe student’s father fail to properly secure them.

 

1800’s had more than a few massacres.

And the point is that any change won’t happen over night, but if the use of guns is restricted and reduced, then the Santa Fe father won’t have guns to secure. Or do you believe that Americans are more prone to mass murder that other countries. The problem is that the current establishments and its voters take your stance. The ‘we have to do something (apart from take our guns away) and I’m going to say a lot without saying anything at all’ approach. And ultimately do nothing. It that attitude that allow nothing to happen, because you offer no alternative and just shrug your shoulders. You align yourself with people who get angry at the thought of losing the right to build an arsenal of high Calibre assault weapons. There has to be other reasons people like yourself won’t call for gun control.

[Santa]

There has to be other reasons people like yourself won’t call for gun control.

It's all part of the binary culture war isn't it.

 

Gun ownership

Benghazi

Hillary's emails

Fox News

Pepe memes

etc.

[Tone]

1800’s had more than a few massacres.

And the point is that any change won’t happen over night, but if the use of guns is restricted and reduced, then the Santa Fe father won’t have guns to secure. Or do you believe that Americans are more prone to mass murder that other countries. The problem is that the current establishments and its voters take your stance. The ‘we have to do something (apart from take our guns away) and I’m going to say a lot without saying anything at all’ approach. And ultimately do nothing. It that attitude that allow nothing to happen, because you offer no alternative and just shrug your shoulders. You align yourself with people who get angry at the thought of losing the right to build an arsenal of high Calibre assault weapons. There has to be other reasons people like yourself won’t call for gun control.

 

So your conclusion is, I am the problem. My conclusion is, if I have a conclusion, that there is a deeper problem than the guns themselves, even if the decision was taken to introduce the sort of drastic controls that you would propose.