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Safe standing


Jacko51

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Not at all ,

 

Its got to be fully thought through and agreed via all concerned, the point re:burton wasn't the issue with standing as standing alone doesn't cause problems (same as seating) more the club/fa allowing selling too many tickets , then the attitude of the police n stewards in their management of this.

 

I agree about the attitude of the police and stewards but in reality, how can a handful of police and stewards get 3,000 folk in an away end to sit down. It's almost impossible. How would you manage such a situation?

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Not at all ,

 

Its got to be fully thought through and agreed via all concerned, the point re:burton wasn't the issue with standing as standing alone doesn't cause problems (same as seating) more the club/fa allowing selling too many tickets , then the attitude of the police n stewards in their management of this.

As I understand it, rail type seating determines the number of people in an area no different than a current seating area. Indeed if unnumbered tickets are used the capacity is reduced by 10%.
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As I understand it, rail type seating determines the number of people in an area no different than a current seating area. Indeed if unnumbered tickets are used the capacity is reduced by 10%.

 

Crewe will do a good job at least , -signs said no standing in isles yet even the police couldn't get up the stairs without breathing in and squeezing whilst doing nothing to clear the said isles.

 

Understand all points but it needs to be agreed with all parties :police, government,supporter clubs,clubs , FA,stewards, +any others involved in organising a matchday- but the ball needs to start moving somewhere but nothing should happen until everyone is on the same page

 

would add when the late arrivals arrive bevvyed up and they want to stand together yet you have got your ticket for your standing seat how will this be policed,stewarded do you then move to another area- it does need to be fully discussed -

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Crewe will do a good job at least , -signs said no standing in isles yet even the police couldn't get up the stairs without breathing in and squeezing whilst doing nothing to clear the said isles.

 

Understand all points but it needs to be agreed with all parties :police, government,supporter clubs,clubs , FA,stewards, +any others involved in organising a matchday- but the ball needs to start moving somewhere but nothing should happen until everyone is on the same page

Implementing the current rules appears to be impossible, no doubt we will dither until something horrible happens.
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Implementing the current rules appears to be impossible, no doubt we will dither until something horrible happens.

 

and with safe seating how will that change the implementation as you are suggesting the implementation is the issue.. nothing to do with dithering then you are saying the authorities aren't doing their jobs -sounds familiar when something horrible did happen- well worth a read

Hillsborough.independant.gov.uk/report/

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and with safe seating how will that change the implementation as you are suggesting the implementation is the issue.. nothing to do with dithering then you are saying the authorities aren't doing their jobs -sounds familiar when something horrible did happen.
Safe standing is safer than standing in ordinary seating, so reduces the risks. Safety issues tend to be neglected until something happens, that is the reason for the petition.
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Safe standing is safer than standing in ordinary seating, so reduces the risks. Safety issues tend to be neglected until something happens, that is the reason for the petition.

So football is an accident waiting to happen just limiting the accident which isn't seating standing more the core issues of policing ,stadia, stewarding,fans,fa,clubs like I say all parties need to get together then look at all issues and then move forward in which ever direction, until then just hissing in the wind.

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The term “safe standing” for me is an issue in itself. Who has deemed it “safe” ? Everything is regarded as “safe” until the 50 year wave effect comes along and we have a major incident.

 

Without deliberately trying to cause an issue with so called “safe standing” to see how it behaves, I fail to see how anyone can say this system is “safe”. “safer” possibly, but certainly not safe.

 

Supporters of this system will no doubt say that it has been used abroad and there have been no incidents, thus providing proof it works.

 

My response would be that terrace standing as we knew it in this country happened for decades without incident. Then we had Hillsborough. I understand some supporters desire to stand, but the tail cannot be allowed to wag the dog.

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What happens if we have a major incident in a seated section? Do we ban seats, move to safe standing only or close stadiums? I was at Preston when we had the fire and I don’t think we would have evacuated that stand in time had we all been seated. As said before, all stands are safe, seated or not as long as the safety requirements are adhered to.

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The term “safe standing” for me is an issue in itself. Who has deemed it “safe” ? Everything is regarded as “safe” until the 50 year wave effect comes along and we have a major incident.

 

Without deliberately trying to cause an issue with so called “safe standing” to see how it behaves, I fail to see how anyone can say this system is “safe”. “safer” possibly, but certainly not safe.

 

Supporters of this system will no doubt say that it has been used abroad and there have been no incidents, thus providing proof it works.

 

My response would be that terrace standing as we knew it in this country happened for decades without incident. Then we had Hillsborough. I understand some supporters desire to stand, but the tail cannot be allowed to wag the dog.

You must be younger than me, I remember 33 people dying in 1946 at Bolton in a cup tie versus Stoke, the problem is crowd surges which cannot happen with German safe standing. My father insisted that I stood in front of the ironwork(crush barrier) not behind it. Obviously the crowd capacity has to be enforced just as with seating, standing positions can be allocated if necessary.
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The term “safe standing” for me is an issue in itself. Who has deemed it “safe” ? Everything is regarded as “safe” until the 50 year wave effect comes along and we have a major incident.

 

Without deliberately trying to cause an issue with so called “safe standing” to see how it behaves, I fail to see how anyone can say this system is “safe”. “safer” possibly, but certainly not safe.

 

Supporters of this system will no doubt say that it has been used abroad and there have been no incidents, thus providing proof it works.

 

My response would be that terrace standing as we knew it in this country happened for decades without incident. Then we had Hillsborough. I understand some supporters desire to stand, but the tail cannot be allowed to wag the dog.

 

That’s simply not true RR. As has already been pointed out, Bolton and Ibrox saw multiple deaths. On many other occasions there were serious incidents without fatalities, including twice in semi-finals at Hillsborough. I was at White Hart Lane for an FA Cup fifth round when the away fans section became dangerously overcrowded with fans climbing over barriers to escape the crush. I stood on the side at Filbert Street for cup tie against Wolves. I started at the back of the Stand and ended up at the front and I swear my feet barely touched the ground. This is NOT safe standing. There has been rail seating at CelticPark all season. Here it is.

 

http://c1.thejournal.ie/media/2016/07/celtic-v-vfl-wolfsburg-pre-season-friendly-celtic-park-390x285.jpg

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Mainly a concern for clubs in European competitions which require all-seater stadiums. How many English clubs allow standing in seats against regulations? It only needs EUFA to clamp down on this, Germans being Germans cover it both ways, they have their standing Kops for league games and sit for European.

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That’s simply not true RR. As has already been pointed out, Bolton and Ibrox saw multiple deaths. On many other occasions there were serious incidents without fatalities, including twice in semi-finals at Hillsborough. I was at White Hart Lane for an FA Cup fifth round when the away fans section became dangerously overcrowded with fans climbing over barriers to escape the crush. I stood on the side at Filbert Street for cup tie against Wolves. I started at the back of the Stand and ended up at the front and I swear my feet barely touched the ground. This is NOT safe standing. There has been rail seating at CelticPark all season. Here it is.

 

http://c1.thejournal.ie/media/2016/07/celtic-v-vfl-wolfsburg-pre-season-friendly-celtic-park-390x285.jpg

 

What point of my post is not true ?

 

I realise that “incidents” happened before Hillsborough, but I only mention this one as for the vast majority of readers to this forum, the terrible scenes that occurred 29 years ago today will be the only one they will know.

 

However, as I stated decades passed between the incidents you mention, but that does not mean that a catastrophe could not occur.

 

This was my point about “safe standing”. Just because nothing has happened to date, does not mean that it couldn’t.

 

As far as I am aware, and no doubt you will correct me if I’m wrong, but no loss of life has occurred in seating area’s due to overcrowding or otherwise.

 

And before someone quotes Valley Parade at me, that was due to chained gates so exit was not possible.

 

I hope I make myself clear.

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What point of my post is not true ?

 

I realise that “incidents” happened before Hillsborough, but I only mention this one as for the vast majority of readers to this forum, the terrible scenes that occurred 29 years ago today will be the only one they will know.

 

However, as I stated decades passed between the incidents you mention, but that does not mean that a catastrophe could not occur.

 

This was my point about “safe standing”. Just because nothing has happened to date, does not mean that it couldn’t.

 

As far as I am aware, and no doubt you will correct me if I’m wrong, but no loss of life has occurred in seating area’s due to overcrowding or otherwise.

 

And before someone quotes Valley Parade at me, that was due to chained gates so exit was not possible.

 

I hope I make myself clear.

 

Quite clear. Do you think the seated area at Crewe was safe?

 

I just don’t understand why it’s safe to stand in the Scottish Prem but not the English. Makes no sense to me.

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