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2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Article 50 was triggered before May's election by the way.

I don't doubt you Jean it's so long ago since Adam asked Eve if it was a responsibly sourced, environmentally friendly EU Apple she was chewing on or a home grown one the same as his.

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I don't accept the narrative that the EU is destroying our sovereignty and is any more anti-democratic than a country that has just elected a PM based on less than 0.01% the electorate, including 15 y

I don't agree.  There are a considerable number of male MPs who talk utter rubbish and don't know what they're talking about.  Andrew Bridgen for example, was on Radio 5 telling the world that as an E

This is reaching the stage of two bald blokes arguing over a comb. Tweak May’s backstop, put it back to the Commons, vote without three line whips and get it done. 

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2 hours ago, geosname said:

The easy explanation is remainers thought they would win the referendum..... they then assumed a deal would be negotiated instead of capitulated then realised they had made no deal the default position..... overall not very bright for people in the know.

That reminds me of a saying in this neck of the woods, a joke perhaps: 'you don't have to be knowledgeable to be a politician'.

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5 minutes ago, Aussie Rules said:

That reminds me of a saying in this neck of the woods, a joke perhaps: 'you don't have to be knowledgeable to be a politician'.

This is sadly true.  It is supported  by the Leavers who never thought they would win so had no clue how to achieve Brexit and had blokes like David Davis leading the negotiations.  He was the guy who turned up with his mates at the first meeting with Barnier and Co without a single piece of paperwork!

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3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

A referendum (advisory) was held 3 years ago based on a concept, 3 years later it is up to the MPs to decide based on reality..  If they cant do that irrespective of what party they are in, surely the democratic way would be a confirmatory referendum with all the options clearly explained. There is now no easy way out, we are in the mire up to our necks and it will take at least 10 years to break even. 

I would dearly have liked to see remain win the referendum.  However it didn't and if you're a democrat, I can't see how you can possibly argue that a second referendum is "democratic" when the will of the people i.e the leave vote in 2016 hasn't yet been honoured.  If there were to be another referendum, what do you suggest the question should be?  And if that still comes out as a leave vote do we go on to best of 3, best of 5 or until the non-democratic parliament gets the remain decision it really wanted in the first place?!!

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3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

The Tories have been the Government though out this shambles, it is up to them to come up with a solution, it is the opposition`s job to oppose/improve.  

They've opposed all along but mentioned no improvement,

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12 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

That’s because there is no possible deal that will leave us better off than we are at the moment. And if anyone says “control” or “sovereignty” I shall not be responsible for my actions. 

Ohhh that's so tempting Jean...... but I will refrain. 555:woot:.... I got my smilies back

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48 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

This is sadly true.  It is supported  by the Leavers who never thought they would win so had no clue how to achieve Brexit and had blokes like David Davis leading the negotiations.  He was the guy who turned up with his mates at the first meeting with Barnier and Co without a single piece of paperwork!

I voted leave and watched the first few results come in and if I remember right they were all to stay, so I went bed next morning I could not believe the result, I didn't know all the ins and outs but, that's where I thought my "betters in parliament" were there to sort it. Little did I know, but if the whole of parliament had accepted the result and worked together for a good result for GB, we would be talking trade deals now...

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54 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

I would dearly have liked to see remain win the referendum.  However it didn't and if you're a democrat, I can't see how you can possibly argue that a second referendum is "democratic" when the will of the people i.e the leave vote in 2016 hasn't yet been honoured.  If there were to be another referendum, what do you suggest the question should be?  And if that still comes out as a leave vote do we go on to best of 3, best of 5 or until the non-democratic parliament gets the remain decision it really wanted in the first place?!!

The vote has been honoured, the second best deal is being sought, if the MPs cannot agree it should be passed to the people, the questions and consequences of the confirmatory referendum would be stated at the time. I would word the referendum the same as before, and put a 2/3 threshold on it but would expect only a simple majority to be agreed by the MPs, The result to be conclusive but all future referendums to be 2/3 threshold.. The referendum was purely a Tory project by Cameron.

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43 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

I voted leave and watched the first few results come in and if I remember right they were all to stay, so I went bed next morning I could not believe the result, I didn't know all the ins and outs but, that's where I thought my "betters in parliament" were there to sort it. Little did I know, but if the whole of parliament had accepted the result and worked together for a good result for GB, we would be talking trade deals now...

So you voted for something you didn’t really know was possible or not, and blame others for not producing a pie from the sky. This is why we are where we are. We negotiated a deal before any of the recent Shenanigans went on. Before any votes, any court cases and any prorogueing. It was disliked by those in both sides. You can’t get upset that some sort of vague but seemingly great deal was not achieved. 

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4 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

The vote has been honoured, the second best deal is being sought, if the MPs cannot agree it should be passed to the people, the questions and consequences of the confirmatory referendum would be stated at the time. I would word the referendum the same as before, and put a 2/3 threshold on it but would expect only a simple majority to be agreed by the MPs, The result to be conclusive but all future referendums to be 2/3 threshold.. The referendum was purely a Tory project by Cameron.

You can keep bashing that old banjo mate but it has no strings.

Both major parties vowed to honour the result, the result was to leave pure and simple, cack decision but it was made.

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4 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

So you voted for something you didn’t really know was possible or not, and blame others for not producing a pie from the sky. This is why we are where we are. We negotiated a deal before any of the recent Shenanigans went on. Before any votes, any court cases and any prorogueing. It was disliked by those in both sides. You can’t get upset that some sort of vague but seemingly great deal was not achieved. 

To be fair mate the people answered a simple question, far to simple in my opinion.... the bit between the referendum and leaving was, as it should be, down to the people in the know..... who apparently didn't and don't know.

They invoked article 50 without knowing the consequences..... if you are not prepared to leave without a deal why would you do that? I don't think anyone "in the know" knew what to do or knew the consequences of the mechanics of leaving.

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44 minutes ago, geosname said:

You can keep bashing that old banjo mate but it has no strings.

Both major parties vowed to honour the result, the result was to leave pure and simple, cack decision but it was made.

Not simple at all, quite complicated, and uncertain, that is why there is a revoke option.

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