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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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15 minutes ago, geosname said:

How many people care

Well I'm sure that there are 17.4 million democracy lovers that know who their elected representatives are in the European Parliament Geo.

That's why they are deeply unhappy with the lack of say that they have in shaping laws or policy in any meaningful way, and that the English parliament urgently need to regain its sovereignty and renegotiate all of the existing trade deals that we currently have in place.

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The economy hasn't shrunk since 2016.

The pound hasn't dropped against the Euro. Nor the dollar.

Investment hasn't stalled.

We are not close to a recession.

The earth is flat.

Black is white.

You chose for yourselves which of those statements are facts and which are lies.

 

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1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

Another "independent" study quoted.

 

https://gov.wales/cardiff-university-secures-eu-funds-for-new-scientific-research-facility

 

Any more "independent" studies which you can just claim are the best arbiters of anti-eu bias?

 

The same 99% economists (is that even true by the way? feels like another remainer lie to me) who have been wrong about every prediction that they've made so far.

I'll trust the 1% who are not consistently proven wrong I think.

The best 1%.

I'm convinced your're trolling yourself half the time to be honest, or at least certainly gaslighting incredibly badly.

Nobody, and that includes the cabinet of incompetents, think that economically Brexit in any format, particularly No Deal, is a good idea. They just don't actually care. As the puppetmeister himself Dominic Cummings has said, the Tories don't care about poorer people. It's a pretence to claim anything otherwise.

Sage, you're wasting your time, Regal will never ever admit that he's in the wrong - he's so far down the rabbit hole it's like Alice in Wonderland. He's a genuine lost cause unable to distinguish something tangible from something ethereal.

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12 minutes ago, The_godfather said:

Well I'm sure that there are 17.4 million democracy lovers that know who their elected representatives are in the European Parliament Geo.

That's why they are deeply unhappy with the lack of say that they have in shaping laws or policy in any meaningful way, and that the English parliament urgently need to regain its sovereignty and renegotiate all of the existing trade deals that we currently have in place.

Don't need to know their names, I have 5 MEPs. At least 90% of EU rules had UK backing so very much had a say. Of course there were MEPs who rarely attended so did not have much say in fishing negotiations.

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51 minutes ago, TheSage said:

The economy hasn't shrunk since 2016.

The pound hasn't dropped against the Euro. Nor the dollar.

Investment hasn't stalled.

We are not close to a recession.

The earth is flat.

Black is white.

You chose for yourselves which of those statements are facts and which are lies.

 

I'll tell you what has happened in your beloved EU.Their main player Germany has suffered an industrial production reduction of 1.5% in June and there are fears that their largest economy could be heading for it's first recession in six years.

The so-called experts predicted it would only fall by 0.4% in June compared to May?The fall meant that industrial production in Germany was 5.2% lower than a year ago according to Germany's statistics office.Carsten Brzeski,ING's chief economist for Germany said "the figures were devastating,with no silver lining".

Copied and pasted from the Financial Times August 7th,2019.

Germany by the way will be staying in the EU,so shouldn't be subjected to uncertainty.Over to you Sage.

 

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On 07/08/2019 at 16:20, Fosse69 said:

Who is telling MPs what they cannot do or not do, not Johnson but Cummings. Taking back control is not for the peoples benefit,  but rests with shadowy figures spouting every day in the newspapers.

He's certainly not do it for himself unlike Heseltine.

Cummings will lose his annual EU subsidy of around €20,000,which he has received for the last 20 years.

Mind you it's not a EU gift,it's  our money anyway.

 

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35 minutes ago, For Us All said:

I'll tell you what has happened in your beloved EU.Their main player Germany has suffered an industrial production reduction of 1.5% in June and there are fears that their largest economy could be heading for it's first recession in six years.

The so-called experts predicted it would only fall by 0.4% in June compared to May?The fall meant that industrial production in Germany was 5.2% lower than a year ago according to Germany's statistics office.Carsten Brzeski,ING's chief economist for Germany said "the figures were devastating,with no silver lining".

Copied and pasted from the Financial Times August 7th,2019.

Germany by the way will be staying in the EU,so shouldn't be subjected to uncertainty.Over to you Sage.

 

I'm sorry, I don't get your point. 

Everyone will suffer from (a) a trade war between China and the USA, (b) from Brexit, and (c) from a world wide slump. 

I can't see the relevance of discussing Germany. I'm more bothered about the UK. The UK is also on the brink of a recession, after ten years of austerity. Which facts above do you disagree with?

It's not my beloved EU. But on balance I believe we are better in than out. You have singularly failed to provide evidence to the contrary.

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2 hours ago, TheSage said:

The economy hasn't shrunk since 2016.

Other economies have grown a little faster making ours look smaller

The pound hasn't dropped against the Euro. Nor the dollar.

The pound hasn't dropped other currencies have gotten stronger

Investment hasn't stalled.

Investment hasn't grown as expected

We are not close to a recession.

we are no closer to recession than we were yesterday

The earth is flat.

except for the mountains, and valleys, and the roadworks on the M6

Black is white.

only in a negative sense

You chose for yourselves which of those statements are facts and which are lies.

 

Political speak...... except the last one 555

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For all the posturing and rhetoric by leavers I think the economy and the country will take a sizeable hit when/if we leave..... not as big as some forecast but it will hurt.

For all the posturing and rhetoric by remainers I think the country will take a sizeable political hit, which will also cause financial problems.

I can't see an easy rout out of the mess we are in. No deal maybe the default position but that doesn't rectify the situation it just converts it into another situation.

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2 hours ago, The_godfather said:

I'm convinced your're trolling yourself half the time to be honest, or at least certainly gaslighting incredibly badly.

Nobody, and that includes the cabinet of incompetents, think that economically Brexit in any format, particularly No Deal, is a good idea. They just don't actually care. As the puppetmeister himself Dominic Cummings has said, the Tories don't care about poorer people. It's a pretence to claim anything otherwise.

Sage, you're wasting your time, Regal will never ever admit that he's in the wrong - he's so far down the rabbit hole it's like Alice in Wonderland. He's a genuine lost cause unable to distinguish something tangible from something ethereal.

Same post again. It's literally a template for you lot isn't?

 

Just keep banging the same drum over and over again "everyone says this" "all economists think that" "it's only you that believes this"

And also resorting to insults. Talk about gaslighting. You lot are brain washed.

 

Your post is quite simply not true.

There are plenty of people in the cabinet who believe Brexit will be good long term.

There are plenty of sensible economists who believe Brexit will be good long term.

https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/News/brexit-could-boost-uk-economy-by-135-billion-say-top-economists/

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/sajid-javid-brexit-boris-johnson-no-deal-economy-contraction-a9050601.html

(This is one of them pro brexit articles Sage is always talking about i think)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/09/uk-economy-has-not-damaged-brexit-failure-deliver/

 

Evidence and facts. Your post is not accurate.

 

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3 hours ago, The_godfather said:

I'm convinced your're trolling yourself half the time to be honest, or at least certainly gaslighting incredibly badly.

Nobody, and that includes the cabinet of incompetents, think that economically Brexit in any format, particularly No Deal, is a good idea. They just don't actually care. As the puppetmeister himself Dominic Cummings has said, the Tories don't care about poorer people. It's a pretence to claim anything otherwise.

Sage, you're wasting your time, Regal will never ever admit that he's in the wrong - he's so far down the rabbit hole it's like Alice in Wonderland. He's a genuine lost cause unable to distinguish something tangible from something ethereal.

Talking of a cabinet of incompetents,I see Caroline Lucas is attempting to create a cabinet of females to thwart a no deal Brexit.

Sexist or what?

You couldn't make it up.

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Er, no, RB.

You are right to quote Minford and his cronies as about the only academic economists in the country who think that Brexit will be good financially. But they are in a tiny minority and their methodology and forecasting has been debunked at almost every turn. It's like asking Herod for advice on child care or Henry VIII for marriage guidance.

They have based their findings on information partly taken from  2002. They assume a tariff free future and no border costs, just benefits accrued. Financial services are ignored. Quality of product is ignored. Distance is not taken into account. He thinks trading with Malaysia is no different than trading with France. He envisages manufacturing disappearing in the UK. Totally. Very suspect research. Rubbish in, rubbish out, one economist called it. Consulting Paul the Octopus might be wiser.

Is this the same Minford who advised Mrs Thatcher, doesn't give a toss about jobs, was in favour of the poll tax, and thinks that climate change is a figment of everyone's imagination? Ah, yes, that's the one. A critic of the EU for many decades, part of the leave campaign and a paid employee of the Telegraph. He is generally regarded as a crank by his fellow economists and the FT view his claims "as absurd." He predicted that the minimum wage in 1997 would cost millions of jobs. Didn't get that one right either.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheSage said:

Er, no, RB.

You are right to quote Minford and his cronies as about the only academic economists in the country who think that Brexit will be good financially. But they are in a tiny minority and their methodology and forecasting has been debunked at almost every turn. It's like asking Herod for advice on child care or Henry VIII for marriage guidance.

They have based their findings on information partly taken from  2002. They assume a tariff free future and no border costs, just benefits accrued. Financial services are ignored. Quality of product is ignored. Distance is not taken into account. He thinks trading with Malaysia is no different than trading with France. He envisages manufacturing disappearing in the UK. Totally. Very suspect research. Rubbish in, rubbish out, one economist called it. Consulting Paul the Octopus might be wiser.

Is this the same Minford who advised Mrs Thatcher, doesn't give a toss about jobs, was in favour of the poll tax, and thinks that climate change is a figment of everyone's imagination? Ah, yes, that's the one. A critic of the EU for many decades, part of the leave campaign and a paid employee of the Telegraph. He is generally regarded as a crank by his fellow economists and the FT view his claims "as absurd." He predicted that the minimum wage in 1997 would cost millions of jobs. Didn't get that one right either.

 

 

 

I guess all economists are wrong then. At least he's not been wrong on every brexit prediction though.

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