Jump to content

Brexit again...


Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

So traditionally eurosceptic that in 1975 we voted to enter the EU by a massive margin.  In fact only 20% of the eligible population to vote actually voted to stay out..  but yeh, traditionally we are euro sceptic. 

Did we join Schengen?

Did we adopt the Euro?

Including the charter of Fundemntal rights of the EU and the Area of freedom, security and justice, the UK has the most opt outs of EU legislation out of all EU members with 4. source

https://ec.europa.eu/commfrontoffice/publicopinion/index.cfm/Archive/index

40 year "eurobarometer" published by the EU....

-EU citizens polled about whether they "feel European"...UK scored the lowest with 33%.

-UK also scored joint lowest on whether they felt like "EU citizens" (With Greece by the way)

-Also the lowest in 2011 survey when asked whether EU citizens were seeing the benefits of membership (35%)

-Scored in the lowest 5 in the aftermath of the financial crisis when asked whether this was a sign that the EU needs to work more closely together

-In 2013, the free movement principles being described as the most important success of the EU was least likely to be mentioned in....You guessed it....The UK (and Malta)

-The UK and Sweden have had majorities against a common EU foreign policy since 2010. Joined by other nordic countries in 2012. Every other nation had majorities in favour.

-Only Ireland scored lower in favourability towards a common security and defence policy. (Ireland 50%, UK 54%). It's also cited how interesting the difference in results for this question is between the 3 main EU contributors to defence/security budget...France 77%, Germany 82% (EU Average was 73%).

 

So yes. Traditionally we are one of the most eurosceptic populations within the EU. Fact.

And for TheSage - This euroscepticism was alive and well, well before the referendum was announced so if you could stop trotting out that line, that would be great.

 

Let me know if you need any more sources by the way, there's absolutely loads but I went with the actual EU again as it felt about the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 13.3k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • geosname

    1641

  • Fosse69

    1462

  • For Us All

    1405

  • Regal Beagle

    1054

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I don't accept the narrative that the EU is destroying our sovereignty and is any more anti-democratic than a country that has just elected a PM based on less than 0.01% the electorate, including 15 y

I don't agree.  There are a considerable number of male MPs who talk utter rubbish and don't know what they're talking about.  Andrew Bridgen for example, was on Radio 5 telling the world that as an E

This is reaching the stage of two bald blokes arguing over a comb. Tweak May’s backstop, put it back to the Commons, vote without three line whips and get it done. 

Posted Images

9 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

The EU wants to unite Europe under a single control by holding elections in every members country to install MEPs who can vote on every single part of that "control".  Its a bit like saying football league clubs are controlled by the EFL even though they all vote on its rules...

NAZI GERMANY wanted to exert control by killing everyone who disagreed.

Yeh, the similarities are obvious arent they...

Ffs.

 

You are happy to compare a tory brexit to nazi germany, do you think that the tory government is exerting control by killing everyone who disagress with them?

 

Your head has gone big time. Take the tin foil off and read some proper news that isn't just your facebook timeline. I don't believe you know what right wing is, I don't believe you know what fascism is, I don't believe you know much about nazi germany judging by your recent posts.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, geosname said:

I agree that the majority of the voters chose to join the EEC.... so rightly we did. 

I think as a nation we have probably been sceptical of Europe for many years but not necessarily of the EU.... that's where my definition of being eurosceptic and lbs differ...

 

That was, and still is my understanding Geo.

 

Current EU membership is for clear and enduring reasons and include:

  • For France and Germany EU co-operation heals the scars of war;
  • Belgium gains diplomatic economies of scale; and
  • Poland, Hungary joined to thwap against Russian hegemony;

However, and if I remember rightly, back in 1973 Britain joined the EEC hesitantly, without enthusiasm and in a moment of transient economic anxiety.

 

So for me pre 1973 there was no such thing as Euroscepticism - traditional or otherwise.

 

As I read it Euroscepticism emerged consequence of the Conservative Party in particular,  and a nation in general never wanting to be a member of the club in the first place i.e. was motivated only by a narrow economic prospect of accessing and benefits from European free trade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Aussie Rules said:

That was, and still is my understanding Geo.

 

Current EU membership is for clear and enduring reasons and include:

  • For France and Germany EU co-operation heals the scars of war;
  • Belgium gains diplomatic economies of scale; and
  • Poland, Hungary joined to thwap against Russian hegemony;

However, and if I remember rightly, back in 1973 Britain joined the EEC hesitantly, without enthusiasm and in a moment of transient economic anxiety.

 

So for me pre 1973 there was no such thing as Euroscepticism - traditional or otherwise.

 

As I read it Euroscepticism emerged consequence of the Conservative Party in particular,  and a nation in general never wanting to be a member of the club in the first place i.e. was motivated only by a narrow economic prospect of accessing and benefits from European free trade.

Agreed.

Thatcher switched from advocating for membership to almost campaigning against it. Worried that it was starting to errode our sovereignty.

That is another stat I've seen but I haven't got the link at the moment - British people are more concerned about sovereignty than the rest of the EU member states.

 

We're just politically different. The EU wants to go further in a direction that we have never and will never be comfortable with in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didnt remain win the popular vote in the latest major poll?  The European Elections?

 

I suppose that's subjective of where you put labour which is difficult to tell although they are definitely against no deal so according to those results there is no mandate for no deal by quite a margin and that's without assuming not all the idiots who voted for Farages lot would be happy with no deal and not and same of Tories.  All other parties stood clearly opposed to brexit and labour clearly advocated a deal and public vote.

So all this talk of not knowing if there is no mandate for no deal is just lies because as recent as May this year, around 14M people voted in a poll which tells us the answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Aussie Rules said:

That was, and still is my understanding Geo.

 

Current EU membership is for clear and enduring reasons and include:

  • For France and Germany EU co-operation heals the scars of war;
  • Belgium gains diplomatic economies of scale; and
  • Poland, Hungary joined to thwap against Russian hegemony;

However, and if I remember rightly, back in 1973 Britain joined the EEC hesitantly, without enthusiasm and in a moment of transient economic anxiety.

 

So for me pre 1973 there was no such thing as Euroscepticism - traditional or otherwise.

 

As I read it Euroscepticism emerged consequence of the Conservative Party in particular,  and a nation in general never wanting to be a member of the club in the first place i.e. was motivated only by a narrow economic prospect of accessing and benefits from European free trade.

Anti- Europe feeling in this country has been encouraged by the tabloid press in particular with their stupid headlines. It has been encouraged by people like Boris Johnson writing made up stuff about the EU in his newspaper columns.  

This suggestion that it has been at the top of the political agenda for years is also incorrect. If you look at the 2010 Conservative manifesto, which is 118 pages long, it is page 113 before the EU is mention. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Anti- Europe feeling in this country has been encouraged by the tabloid press in particular with their stupid headlines. It has been encouraged by people like Boris Johnson writing made up stuff about the EU in his newspaper columns.  

This suggestion that it has been at the top of the political agenda for years is also incorrect. If you look at the 2010 Conservative manifesto, which is 118 pages long, it is page 113 before the EU is mention. 

I didn't suggest it was at the top of any political agenda Jean. Although there have been battles within the political parties 're the EU. 

My comments 're eurosceptic were more along the lines of countries within the continent rather than the collective political ensemble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

But that is my point - millions died protecting arbitary lines on a map.  It's madness when you think about it. 

Thus why the EU has a system of allowing their citizens to mingle and trade freely without physical borders. Nothing is ever perfect though, wars in the Middle East have produced millions of refugees, of which a relative few travelled to Europe, disturbing the equilibrium. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

Anti- Europe feeling in this country has been encouraged by the tabloid press in particular with their stupid headlines. It has been encouraged by people like Boris Johnson writing made up stuff about the EU in his newspaper columns.  

This suggestion that it has been at the top of the political agenda for years is also incorrect. If you look at the 2010 Conservative manifesto, which is 118 pages long, it is page 113 before the EU is mention. 

I read yesterday that at the last election in a survey of peoples concerns the EU was not in the top 10,  I  cant remember the source though as I was just flipping though on a tablet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Anti- Europe feeling in this country has been encouraged by the tabloid press in particular with their stupid headlines. It has been encouraged by people like Boris Johnson writing made up stuff about the EU in his newspaper columns.  

This suggestion that it has been at the top of the political agenda for years is also incorrect. If you look at the 2010 Conservative manifesto, which is 118 pages long, it is page 113 before the EU is mention. 

You are right Jean - I stand corrected. It was clumsy of me to generalise the Conservative Party. My apologies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Thus why the EU has a system of allowing their citizens to mingle and trade freely without physical borders. Nothing is ever perfect though, wars in the Middle East have produced millions of refugees, of which a relative few travelled to Europe, disturbing the equilibrium. 

It's not free mate, a price has to be paid via membership.

Are boarders designed to keep people out or keep people in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Walking past Bevan`s statue in the centre of Cardiff yesterday, what would he say now about handing over the NHS to US insurance companies? 

What would he say about successive governments screwing up such a brilliant idea?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

I read yesterday that at the last election in a survey of peoples concerns the EU was not in the top 10,  I  cant remember the source though as I was just flipping though on a tablet.

That would depend on the questions asked mate.... if that was the specific question I wouldn't be surprised with the answer.

However if they indicated immigration, access to housing, access to services, NHS etc as a priority it brings into play the EU question by association. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

I didn’t say you had. I was making a general statement about what had been posted by folk on here. 

And as someone who posts on here I was simply clarifying my position.

Your other comment 're tabloid press...... the media need to grab headlines to sell their story..... the more ludicrous the statement the more people seem to read it.... the more controversial the more it spreads..... I include all media.

I'm not excusing it just accepting it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, geosname said:

That would depend on the questions asked mate.... if that was the specific question I wouldn't be surprised with the answer.

However if they indicated immigration, access to housing, access to services, NHS etc as a priority it brings into play the EU question by association. 

Agreed, it is the use of the EU as the cause of nearly all of our problems that caused the Brexit result, together with the protest vote against Cameron and austerity,  which itself influenced anger with lacking services. Govts will always place the blame elsewhere unless held to account by the media.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Reporting Posts and Ignoring Users

    Moderators don't read everything. Please don't assume we'll spot rule breaking (e.g. personal abuse) - use the orange report button above a post to alert them.

    If you can't get on with another forum user you can select the "ignore" option. Simply click on the link below, type in their username and save - Click here




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy