Brexit again...

[TheSage]

Lib Dems currently on top of the latest poll, Brexit 2nd, Tories & Lab in 3rd place.

 

The tide is turning.

People are beginning to see the light.

[mr.hobblesworth]

It's not my analogy.

 

Sorry. Your (pl) analogy is getting a little stretched.

[mr.hobblesworth]

The tide is turning.

People are beginning to see the light.

 

What position do you think Labour should take regarding a 2nd referendum?

[Fosse69]

You put the house on the market when you called a referendum, the offer was made when the results were announced, you accepted the offer and exchanged contracts when you promised to honour the result/offer.

 

You are now homeless squatters living in someone's house.

 

The collective you not you personally....... if the queen can have a we I can have a you.

The referendum I voted in was advisory, so I did not need to make an offer, upon consideration of the options I decided to stay where I was, whether the collective will make the same decision who knows?

[TheSage]

What position do you think Labour should take regarding a 2nd referendum?

 

Joe's idea about joining some kind of transitory customs union and having another think in 2-3 years (like Wilson) would perhaps get most people on board in this now polarised and increasingly hostile climate.

 

Failing that I think they should firmly commit to having one and let the public now decide if they want to jump ship regardless of the circumstances [which probably means NO Deal because there's no sign of the EU altering anything and they are surely cheesed off with us] or reconsider and stay, but try a bit harder to make our views known. Thatcher got a rebate remember. And I guess there's more chance now that they will be more receptive in light of everything that has happened in the last three years.

 

It's very hard isn't it? The situation changes and waves back and forth all the time and most of our politicians are out of their depth.

 

Does anyone seriously think that most of these contenders for PM are not doing it primarily for career reasons and playing the tough guy to buy off Farage's votes? Leadership is singularly lacking all round.

[geosname]

What position do you think Labour should take regarding a 2nd referendum?

 

Just pick one and run with it like you mean it.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Joe's idea about joining some kind of transitory customs union and having another think in 2-3 years (like Wilson) would perhaps get most people on board in this now polarised and increasingly hostile climate.

 

Failing that I think they should firmly commit to having one and let the public now decide if they want to jump ship regardless of the circumstances [which probably means NO Deal because there's no sign of the EU altering anything and they are surely cheesed off with us] or reconsider and stay, but try a bit harder to make our views known. Thatcher got a rebate remember. And I guess there's more chance now that they will be more receptive in light of everything that has happened in the last three years.

 

It's very hard isn't it? The situation changes and waves back and forth all the time and most of our politicians are out of their depth.

 

Does anyone seriously think that most of these contenders for PM are not doing it primarily for career reasons and playing the tough guy to buy off Farage's votes? Leadership is singularly lacking all round.

 

The first paragraph I would also like to see happen but it would never get through. People like my self enjoy accusing the leavers of being thick racists with big purple faces but some of the #FBPE lot are just as irritating and intransigent, some of the most self-entitled spoilt babies I've come across in my time in politics. Tinge and their pals across the parties won't countenance ever voting for something that involves leaving, and the right of the tories and a handful of Labour won't give anything compromise the time of day. We get loads of Labour voters refusing to vote for Labour ever again whilst Corbyn doesn't back a second referendum but swathes of Stoke, Wigan, Middlesbrough, Lincoln etc turning their back on the party for not 'getting us out now' (or whatever they're blethering on about). I do think that we should back a second referendum, not because I want us to remain (although I do) but because I just want an end to this with the fairest result possible. Despite the sense that Corbyn is fence-sitting, I don't think that he and the party could have managed this clusterf*ck any better.

 

I only think Corbyn is doing it for 'career reasons' in as much as he's desperate to get in to power and transform the country to help the people who need it and jumping in in favour of one or the other will jeopardise that. I think a Corbyn government post-Brexit is preferable to a tory government with s staying in.

[tommytunstall]

As a Labour voter I would certainly not vote for a Corbyn led party. They currently embarrassing, Corbyn must have splinters in his backside the amount of time he has sat on the wall.

 

When you look at Alistair Campbell and the treatment of Jewish people, it is obviously a party run by Momentum and the Arab supporters

The first paragraph I would also like to see happen but it would never get through. People like my self enjoy accusing the leavers of being thick racists with big purple faces but some of the #FBPE lot are just as irritating and intransigent, some of the most self-entitled spoilt babies I've come across in my time in politics. Tinge and their pals across the parties won't countenance ever voting for something that involves leaving, and the right of the tories and a handful of Labour won't give anything compromise the time of day. We get loads of Labour voters refusing to vote for Labour ever again whilst Corbyn doesn't back a second referendum but swathes of Stoke, Wigan, Middlesbrough, Lincoln etc turning their back on the party for not 'getting us out now' (or whatever they're blethering on about). I do think that we should back a second referendum, not because I want us to remain (although I do) but because I just want an end to this with the fairest result possible. Despite the sense that Corbyn is fence-sitting, I don't think that he and the party could have managed this clusterf*ck any better.

 

I only think Corbyn is doing it for 'career reasons' in as much as he's desperate to get in to power and transform the country to help the people who need it and jumping in in favour of one or the other will jeopardise that. I think a Corbyn government post-Brexit is preferable to a tory government with s staying in.

[mr.hobblesworth]

Re Campbell, how do you explain Blair's New Labour automatically expelling people for exactly the same reason that Campbell was expelled for? Was Blair 'run by Momentum'?

 

Do you not think that, your thoughts on the man himself aside, a Corbyn government would be the best party to transform the country? Who else would you prefer?

[Paul6754]

What position do you think Labour should take regarding a 2nd referendum?

 

Labor should 100% back a 2nd referendum, it would add even more impetus for the sensible way forward.

[tommytunstall]

Blair had to get rid of the nutters, to make Labour electable. Sorry Left wing ideals are fine, but Labour is now not ELECTABLE.

Re Campbell, how do you explain Blair's New Labour automatically expelling people for exactly the same reason that Campbell was expelled for? Was Blair 'run by Momentum'?

 

Do you not think that, your thoughts on the man himself aside, a Corbyn government would be the best party to transform the country? Who else would you prefer?

[mr.hobblesworth]

Blair had to get rid of the nutters, to make Labour electable. Sorry Left wing ideals are fine, but Labour is now not ELECTABLE.

 

Blair didn't get rid of 'nutters', the party expelled members for violating it's rule stating you shouldn't vote for or promote another party, just as the party has with Campbell. Personally, I think it's the least of Campbell's crimes but that's another matter.

[geosname]

Re Campbell, how do you explain Blair's New Labour automatically expelling people for exactly the same reason that Campbell was expelled for? Was Blair 'run by Momentum'?

 

Do you not think that, your thoughts on the man himself aside, a Corbyn government would be the best party to transform the country? Who else would you prefer?

 

A Labour government perhaps....... a jezza government no

[mr.hobblesworth]

People said exactly the same about Labour under Ed Miliband. People complaining about how extreme he was and they'd love to vote for Labour but couldn't with him in charge. Some people seem to want a Labour party without any socialism. Makes me wonder why the state they're Labour voters when they'd be much more at home with the Lib Dems or tories.

[TheSage]

The problem is Mr H that the world has changed since the last War and not withstanding your passionate support for the underprivileged and downtrodden who have suffered terribly under the Tories while the wealthy have had tax cuts, there are these days fewer and fewer manual workers and trade unionists and a lot of folk see themselves more and more as middle class, with holidays abroad, 2-3 cars and a bit of cash in the bank.

 

Many of the old "working class" have disappeared and turned into the new lower middle class.

 

JC will harvest votes from the poorest 25% but that's not enough to win a GE. To do so you have to win the centre ground and those crucial marginal seats in the Midlands and south where most folk are moderate, middle of the road voters.

 

As I said before, the only two Labour leaders who have won x3 are Blair and Wilson. The common denominator? They both appealed to the centre as well as the left.

 

That's the bottom line. Stick to a left winger like Foot and to a lesser extent Kinnock and you remain as a campaigning group destined never to win power. History proves that you need to win the centre ground to win an election. When Labour eventually wakes up and smells the coffee, as with Foot, it could be too late.