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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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The monarchy has very little political power....... they could technically refuse to do something but when was the last time that was exercised?

If you don't win you lose...... it doesn't matter how big you lose.

 

In a PR system who decides which MP represents which constituency?...... or do they get lost in the shuffle?

 

In a multi seat PR system you could pick the party of your choice assuming they have been elected. Similar to District Councillors in multi seat wards.

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How? They cannot stop bills involving money.

 

True, but it's not the job of a revising chamber effectively to stop the programme of an incumbent government by starving it of funding, no matter how much we may personally dislike what they're doing - that's the job of the electorate in an election. What the Lords does - and, I should say, does effectively - is to focus the minds of the government in a possible course change.

 

If government don't like a change to a bill that the Lords have made they can change it back again and eventually the Commons have their way, but the Lords are an effective way of causing a government to stop and think.

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True, but it's not the job of a revising chamber effectively to stop the programme of an incumbent government by starving it of funding, no matter how much we may personally dislike what they're doing - that's the job of the electorate in an election. What the Lords does - and, I should say, does effectively - is to focus the minds of the government in a possible course change.

 

If government don't like a change to a bill that the Lords have made they can change it back again and eventually the Commons have their way, but the Lords are an effective way of causing a government to stop and think.

 

Fair enough, but should they be elected or not?

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The Lords, of course, has an in-built Tory majority.

 

To be fair it's easy to pick faults but an altogether different thing to come up with better alternatives although I'm sure there are more democratic ones. Didn't Churchill once say something about our democratic system being terrible but better than the alternatives.

 

The US think their system is the best (as they would). You can vote there for the President, H of R and Senate every few years, but of course you can end up with deadlock and a lame duck president if one of the houses is a different colour. But at least they can vote for all these things.

Sadly, no system is perfect, but there aren't many now around the world that have our confrontational style of two party politics.

 

More and more I'm wanting change and would like to see some smaller parties playing a role. The Greens for one - but not UKIP or Brexit. :wink:

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Fair enough, but should they be elected or not?

 

I don't see why they should. The Lords contains people with wider experience than just politics, and if elected they'd become more than a revising chamber - they would be a Senate like in the USA. Let the Government govern and the Lords be their conscience.

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I don't see why they should. The Lords contains people with wider experience than just politics, and if elected they'd become more than a revising chamber - they would be a Senate like in the USA. Let the Government govern and the Lords be their conscience.

 

But should the Govt appoint them, why not have an independent body to bring them in from a wide source and experience, not from politics. As it stands a govt can fill the place with their lackeys. Are we apart from China the only country with this unelected system?

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But should the Govt appoint them, why not have an independent body to bring them in from a wide source and experience, not from politics. As it stands a govt can fill the place with their lackeys. Are we apart from China the only country with this unelected system?

 

Thailand?

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But should the Govt appoint them, why not have an independent body to bring them in from a wide source and experience, not from politics. As it stands a govt can fill the place with their lackeys. Are we apart from China the only country with this unelected system?

 

There are still a few autocracies around, in practice if not in name. Brunei is one that springs to mind - nothing happens unless the Sultan decrees it; ditto Saudi Arabia.

 

The present makeup of the Lords is a Blair government creation. I think he wanted the apolitical side to be larger; certainly he wanted the Catholic bishops to be represented there, like the Anglican bishops, but this was a non starter owing to Catholic canon law preventing clerics from being secular legislators. I'm sure there were others he had in mind but for one reason or another it never happened.

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