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13 minutes ago, Paul6754 said:

The EU can't give the UK preferential conditions on leaving or remaining as other countries would want the same. France and Germany will defend the existence of the EU at all costs.

That's part of the danger of the EU...... the EU wants to go where it wants to go and  God help anyone who doesn't want to follow 

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I don't accept the narrative that the EU is destroying our sovereignty and is any more anti-democratic than a country that has just elected a PM based on less than 0.01% the electorate, including 15 y

I don't agree.  There are a considerable number of male MPs who talk utter rubbish and don't know what they're talking about.  Andrew Bridgen for example, was on Radio 5 telling the world that as an E

This is reaching the stage of two bald blokes arguing over a comb. Tweak May’s backstop, put it back to the Commons, vote without three line whips and get it done. 

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20 minutes ago, geosname said:

That's part of the danger of the EU...... the EU wants to go where it wants to go and  God help anyone who doesn't want to follow 

But surely that's their whole point...there's a clue in the "Union" after European?!!

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On 29/07/2019 at 08:18, Regal Beagle said:

Well he was a physicist and a cosmologist so you'll have explain why he is qualified to be referenced in a video like this...

Also we voted to leave in 2016, this video didn't work then and it doesn't work now. 

More remainer platitudes 

Sadly, what he said then is just as relevant and pertinent today as it was prophetic then!  By any measurement, we are going to be worse off economically than remaining in the EU. Politically, may well be another different argument! Unfortunately, it's almost certainly going to take at least another 5-10 years before we know whether the politicians or the economists were more accurate in their predictions--both sets can't be right!

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9 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

But surely that's their whole point...there's a clue in the "Union" after European?!!

The EU wants to be more than a union...... it wants to be a super state (country).... own army etc

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The common market idea was great..... the EU has gone way beyond that and I'm not sure I'm in favour of the way it's trying to head it's self..... that doesn't mean I think leaving was a good idea

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7 hours ago, For Us All said:

 

If there is a No Deal it will be solely down to intransigence of the EU.They won't accept that their withdrawal agreement is a dead duck in parliament.They only want to keep the backstop in because it ties us to the customs union forever.

Delaying tactics until the vote is reversed has always been their strategy when other countries have tried to leave.It won't happen this time and until they see sense and decide to sit around the table again it's a lose/lose situation for everbody.

 

The EU agreed a withdrawal plan with the British PM, the fact that it was not acceptable to Parliament is not the fault of the EU. Now we have the Buffoon publicly blasting the EU and telling everyone what he intends to do, not the best sort of approach when supposedly trying to agree a deal with them.

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On 29/07/2019 at 13:17, TheSage said:

I would imagine he knows more about higher education, science,and innovation in the UK, research and development, students' opportunities to study abroad, and a whole host of other sensible and relevant reasons why we should remain in the UK, than you or I. I think his opinion is worth taking seriously.

I'd say that intelligence is about taking the best advice, weighing up the evidence and not choosing a path that is very costly and a complete leap in the dark when we already have marvellous benefits and an economy that is the envy of the world by belonging to the biggest and best market there is anywhere on god's earth. Intelligence is not putting all this success and prosperity at risk by wasting untold billions on a wanton act of self harm.

 

They may have the biggest and best market but it doesn't seem to be filtering down to the youth of today?

Youth unemployment as of May,2019.

Greece   40.4%

Spain      31.7%

Italy         30.5%

Croatia    20.6%

France     20.2%

Portugal   18.7%

Sweden    18.3%

Finland      16.7%

Cyprus       16.4%

Romania    15.4%

Belgium      15.1%

UK                10.4%

 

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http://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.html?redirect

We can be a small fish in a small contaminated pond, or we can be a glorious whale or something, roaming the plentiful globe. Beautiful.

There is absolutely nothing to fear outside of the eu at all. The only foreseeable reason that leaving will be bad long term is bad policy.

Good policy and we will be better long term, in my opinion.

 

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4 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

The EU agreed a withdrawal plan with the British PM, the fact that it was not acceptable to Parliament is not the fault of the EU. Now we have the Buffoon publicly blasting the EU and telling everyone what he intends to do, not the best sort of approach when supposedly trying to agree a deal with them.

Ah yes he should bend over for them, take no deal off the table and present their first offer to parliament. That will definitely work.

Hardball is the only option. And part of hardball is intending to go through with no deal.

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58 minutes ago, geosname said:

The EU wants to be more than a union...... it wants to be a super state (country).... own army etc

Some may but it would need a qualified majority vote at least. Same with an army, it makes sense to share resources as in NATO etc, but control will always remain with nations as with NATO.

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7 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

The EU agreed a withdrawal plan with the British PM, the fact that it was not acceptable to Parliament is not the fault of the EU. Now we have the Buffoon publicly blasting the EU and telling everyone what he intends to do, not the best sort of approach when supposedly trying to agree a deal with them.

If may had started that way we could possibly have had a deal

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2 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Some may but it would need a qualified majority vote at least. Same with an army, it makes sense to share resources as in NATO etc, but control will always remain with nations as with NATO.

"Control" ie - you nations definitely make your own decisions but we will fine you if your decision is not compatible with us.

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Just now, geosname said:

Who is going to stop it?

Me. I can't afford it. 

Why are we not in the Euro? Answer? Because we didn't want to be in it. 

Why don't we drive on the right? Because we don't want to drive on the right.

The EU cannot force us into doing something that we don't want to do.

Give me one law the EU has passed in the last 2-3 years that we haven't agreed with or voted for?

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7 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

The EU agreed a withdrawal plan with the British PM, the fact that it was not acceptable to Parliament is not the fault of the EU. Now we have the Buffoon publicly blasting the EU and telling everyone what he intends to do, not the best sort of approach when supposedly trying to agree a deal with them.

It might have acceptable to a Remainer PM and the EU but that was about it.Even the Remainers in parliament said it was worse than what we already have.

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I don't accept the narrative that the EU is destroying our sovereignty and is any more anti-democratic than a country that has just elected a PM based on less than 0.01% the electorate, including 15 year olds. 

I know there's an argument around sovereignty and it's superficially a very seductive thesis because who doesn't want to be in control of their own destiny? It's a valid viewpoint but a flawed one for me. In 2019 surely the best way to go is by pooling our sovereignty and by collaboration and negotiation. Pure unbridled sovereignty is an abstract notion and in practice in this day and age means little. We work together with others for the benefit of everyone. That's the idea of the UK. We share sovereignty, as with the United Nations, the WTO and with NATO. But no-one questions that because it's good for us to co-operate and to pool ideas and resources. That's how the world works today. We don't operate in a bubble with nation states as if it's the 1800s.

And clearly it makes no sense whatsoever to put at risk our economy, that has been turbo charged by our EU membership and ride off into the desert on a wing and a prayer. It's complete economic lunacy. And there's no two ways about it.

You can argue that leavers want to leave for political reasons. I don't think that will matter one jot to any family in the country. But trashing our economy will. So on balance I've always felt that remaining was in our best interests and the way it's panned out has only strengthened my view. Others can disagree. That's their prerogative. But I really can't see much merit in any of the arguments to leave. I know some people feel left behind and angry but for me that's more to do with successive governments' policies and Austerity and a feeling of being powerless to halt the decline we see on our streets every day of the week, rather than the fault of the EU. But the government has to find a scapegoat and it makes a change from Corbyn.  I just feel  that voters have been sold an unrealistic pipe dream built on shifting sands. But - yes - I'm biased as we all are.

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2 minutes ago, TheSage said:

 

Me. I can't afford it. 

Why are we not in the Euro? Answer? Because we didn't want to be in it. 

Why don't we drive on the right? Because we don't want to drive on the right.

The EU cannot force us into doing something that we don't want to do.

Give me one law the EU has passed in the last 2-3 years that we haven't agreed with or voted for?

Sorry mate I don't follow your reasoning.

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