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Brexit again...

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1 hour ago, For Us All said:

So it's right-wing now is it to support the winning result of a referendum?

A lot of people would say it was more extreme to say you were going to honour the result and then do the opposite and try and overturn it.

No but it's very right wing to support a BJ led Tory party which perusing his agenda is doing.

Most people want to do a deal with the EU and leave accordingly.  That is following the result of the referendum.

Do you  understand yet that being against no deal is not the same as not wanting to leave the EU.  It's no difficult but you seem unable to grasp that in any way at all.

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59 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

No but it's very right wing to support a BJ led Tory party which perusing his agenda is doing.

Most people want to do a deal with the EU and leave accordingly.  That is following the result of the referendum.

Do you  understand yet that being against no deal is not the same as not wanting to leave the EU.  It's no difficult but you seem unable to grasp that in any way at all.

I don't disagree.

However if you take no deal away, rightly or wrongly, you are left with the only deal available which isn't wanted either.

We can't leave with no deal and we can't leave with a deal, because the deal was rejected..... so we can't leave.... so in theory we remain.

If the may deal had been agreed, which is the only deal available, no deal would have been redundant..... which suggests it's got bugger all to do with no deal.... but a lot to do with no leave.

It's a cross between catch 22 and 600+ flew over the cuckoo's nest 

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7 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

I want to leave in the best way for the country and that is categorically not by No Deal.  If it was, Johnson and Co would have done it as soon as he became PM.

No one believes people who say this. You may as well come clean and say that you want the worst deal possible so we can vote to remain.

7 hours ago, For Us All said:

🐓🐓🐓

3 little chlorinated Corbyns.

6 hours ago, ginge said:

Boris didn't even turn up to his own general election debate. He'll lose his seat in the next GE. And there's one coming soon.

Sure, let's have a GE then?

 

2 hours ago, For Us All said:

So it's right-wing now is it to support the winning result of a referendum?

A lot of people would say it was more extreme to say you were going to honour the result and then do the opposite and try and overturn it.

These people dont know what right wing is. Boris is not far right. He is actually quite centrist actually. They conflate his boisterous style with right wing for some reason.

1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

No but it's very right wing to support a BJ led Tory party which perusing his agenda is doing.

Most people want to do a deal with the EU and leave accordingly.  That is following the result of the referendum.

Do you  understand yet that being against no deal is not the same as not wanting to leave the EU.  It's no difficult but you seem unable to grasp that in any way at all.

We cant grasp it because it doesn't exist. It is a lie.

And you dont know what right wing is so probably stop using it as a label? 

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Listening to Five Live yesterday and the reporter was interviewing people as the walked past in a northern town. He said that he'd included every single person that he spoke to.The views were unanimously, overwhelmingly leave and leave now, deal or no deal. I honestly don't think that MPs have a grasp on what large numbers of people in this country feel; if Labour go into the election offering a second referendum and the Lib Dems go for revocation, I'll be putting money on a large Tory majority, especially if the Brexit party form some form of pact.

People are bored to tears of all of this. The rights and wrongs of it have been lost in a mist of frustration.

Edited by gavcradd

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3 hours ago, gavcradd said:

Listening to Five Live yesterday and the reporter was interviewing people as the walked past in a northern town. He said that he'd included every single person that he spoke to.The views were unanimously, overwhelmingly leave and leave now, deal or no deal. I honestly don't think that MPs have a grasp on what large numbers of people in this country feel; if Labour go into the election offering a second referendum and the Lib Dems go for revocation, I'll be putting money on a large Tory majority, especially if the Brexit party form some form of pact.

People are bored to tears of all of this. The rights and wrongs of it have been lost in a mist of frustration.

Agreed.  Which highlights the stupidity of rejecting the only deal which was on the table.

Personally I can see no point in a general election prior to Brexit because it will decide nothing.  If Johnson stands on a no deal platform it will prove him to be one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet after all he's said in the past.  If he promises a deal and doesn't get it, it will show he's incompetent.  If I want to vote for Brexit with a deal how do I do it?  If I want to vote for an anti-Stalinist party where the cult of leader plays no part and members don't disappear because the disagree with the leader, who do I vote for?

Surely there has to be an option on the ballot paper which says "None of these stupid buggers thank you very much."

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11 hours ago, geosname said:

Fine sentiment Jean but at the moment it can't happen.

 

So why did Johnson tell us it could happen?  Why did he say the chances of no deal were a million to one?

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46 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Agreed.  Which highlights the stupidity of rejecting the only deal which was on the table.

Personally I can see no point in a general election prior to Brexit because it will decide nothing.  If Johnson stands on a no deal platform it will prove him to be one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet after all he's said in the past.  If he promises a deal and doesn't get it, it will show he's incompetent.  If I want to vote for Brexit with a deal how do I do it?  If I want to vote for an anti-Stalinist party where the cult of leader plays no part and members don't disappear because the disagree with the leader, who do I vote for?

Surely there has to be an option on the ballot paper which says "None of these stupid buggers thank you very much."

There is usually space to write it in, printed or joined up writing is an option

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4 hours ago, gavcradd said:

Listening to Five Live yesterday and the reporter was interviewing people as the walked past in a northern town. He said that he'd included every single person that he spoke to.The views were unanimously, overwhelmingly leave and leave now, deal or no deal. I honestly don't think that MPs have a grasp on what large numbers of people in this country feel; if Labour go into the election offering a second referendum and the Lib Dems go for revocation, I'll be putting money on a large Tory majority, especially if the Brexit party form some form of pact.

People are bored to tears of all of this. The rights and wrongs of it have been lost in a mist of frustration.

Hardly surprising in the referendum everything was blamed on the EU, immigration, not having your bins emptied etc. Having said that think a lot of people now realise that a no deal would be a disaster. How do we get an agreement with the EU is difficult, obviously they are not going to give ground.

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Thornberry is doing a great job tonight.👍

🤣🐓

 

15 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

Hardly surprising in the referendum everything was blamed on the EU, immigration, not having your bins emptied etc. Having said that think a lot of people now realise that a no deal would be a disaster. How do we get an agreement with the EU is difficult, obviously they are not going to give ground.

 

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Lady Nugee playing a blinder on Question Time..........She says IF Labour win a general election she would go back to the EU try and get a better deal, have a referendum where remain is an option and then she would campaign to remain against her own deal.

This is bloody confusing.

Not only are Boris and Rees Mogg of their rockers but the opposition have their share of basket cases and Dianne Abbott hasn't even come to the oche yet.

Unbelievable.

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It's a complete mess and thanks to Cameron we'll be arguing the toss about this for years to come when in realty it is and was no big deal and was never in the voters' top 4-5 concerns at every election up to 2015. Nor was it much mentioned by politicians, Farage apart.

I still say it hasn't been remotely worth the trouble and discord it's caused. There is no compelling reason that trumps the nonsense and upheaval we've gone through and will go through now in the next 5-10 years into the distant future. The Tories have created a Frankenstein monster and now it's out of the box we can't get it back in again. 

They've have gone so far the right that we might as well call them the Tory UKIP party. The days of Macmillan's one nation Toryism have gone and now we're left with a bunch of far right loonies intent on taking us over a cliff, lying every time they open their mouths, and sacking over 20 of the best MPs they'll ever have. Even Johnson's brother has had enough. Truly amazing.

Any yet we've still got people on here who think they're trustworthy, honest and doing a good job!

 

 

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6 hours ago, geosname said:

I don't disagree.

However if you take no deal away, rightly or wrongly, you are left with the only deal available which isn't wanted either.

We can't leave with no deal and we can't leave with a deal, because the deal was rejected..... so we can't leave.... so in theory we remain.

If the may deal had been agreed, which is the only deal available, no deal would have been redundant..... which suggests it's got bugger all to do with no deal.... but a lot to do with no leave.

It's a cross between catch 22 and 600+ flew over the cuckoo's nest 

That's bang on,

 

My thoughts are originally Brexit and negotiation should have been dealt with by a task force that would have been aimed at getting the best deal whilst the government actually focus on governing...Possibly a cross party union with the aim of getting a best deal then the then prime minister would have to sign it off maybe improve it , if the deal was insufficient then they have had their chance and the prime minister and governing party then take up the baton if then this fails then no deal would be the only outcome.

Would I be right in saying any deal bJ negotiated would have to be agreed with parliament, so if he negotiates a no deal this still doesnt mean it would happen..if this is the case its a lot of bedwetting and panicking over an if but and maybes.

 

BJ as prime minister not ideal much better options within his party, but for negotiating a deal he would do great as he will put wind up the euro hierarchy where Tmay wouldn't.,,Corbyn is useless but only wants power and cause as much disruption to the Tories as possible with Brexit further down on the list they will keep voting any deal down,,no other party really to win an election

The UK is split in many ways , big divide between the haves and have nots, Scotland keeps striving for independence , London has its own economy leaving the north behind, HS2 billions wasted to save half hour to London.

We need a leader which can pull all this together and don't care which party although Brexit has to happen and we must leave otherwise the country will split even more, 

The Uk should believe in itself more and not undervalue the talent,workforce and innovation it has

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

So why did Johnson tell us it could happen?  Why did he say the chances of no deal were a million to one?

He would probably say to inspire confidence.....

I would suggest party politics....

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3 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Agreed.  Which highlights the stupidity of rejecting the only deal which was on the table.

Personally I can see no point in a general election prior to Brexit because it will decide nothing.  If Johnson stands on a no deal platform it will prove him to be one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet after all he's said in the past.  If he promises a deal and doesn't get it, it will show he's incompetent.  If I want to vote for Brexit with a deal how do I do it?  If I want to vote for an anti-Stalinist party where the cult of leader plays no part and members don't disappear because the disagree with the leader, who do I vote for?

Surely there has to be an option on the ballot paper which says "None of these stupid buggers thank you very much."

The deal was a bad deal in that it kept us locked into the EU,  possibly forever..... it's still a bad deal..... but now there are no other options available..... unless we remain.

It's been party politics from day one.

None of the above?..... it's a no compromise, no fudge, get your ass out of here statement politicians just might listen to but I wouldn't hold my breath.

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15 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

It is not a war, the crux is whether we trade with our neighbours under mutual conditions, or become subject to more American influence. The 3 ruled the EU and 95% of the trading rules were ours. Compromise or throw it all away, that is the difference between deal or no-deal. The grandson of Winston was sacked on the new pretenders first day.

Yes I know Fosse. My mentioning 1066/Civil War/Battle of Britain was a reference to historical events shaping and defining the British Isles. Given all that has happened since the Referendum it is my opinion that Brexit will be marked as a significant historical event 🙂

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8 hours ago, For Us All said:

Thornberry is doing a great job tonight.👍

🤣🐓

I actually think she needs help.How embarrassing for the woman.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

No deal is a spiteful position supported by people who would rather die in a ditch than admit it.

No deal was the only alternative to the deal the EU offered.

If you have no alternative it's not a deal it's an ultimatum.....

accept the deal or remain.....

remain was not a choice that brexiteers would swallow without kicking back at politicians.... it's not a choice politicians could reasonably make without serious consequences to their elected positions... it's not a choice political parties could make without damaging their prospects of gaining control.

The whole essence of the UK  EU talks was for the UK to leave the EU...... remain should not have been a choice, an option or an availability regarding the withdrawal talks/agreement..... it certainly should not have become an ultimatum.

The decision to remain is solely in the charge of the UK 

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7 hours ago, Aussie Rules said:

Yes I know Fosse. My mentioning 1066/Civil War/Battle of Britain was a reference to historical events shaping and defining the British Isles. Given all that has happened since the Referendum it is my opinion that Brexit will be marked as a significant historical event 🙂

Agreed, hopefully without the casualties whatever the outcome.

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