Brexit again...

[For Us All]

Cameron said it was a once in a lifetime vote.

490 Mps said we leave in March, voted for it and passed it into law.

Moggy also suggested that if the backstop could be sorted Mays deal could get through.

Jezza says he wants "no deal" off the table as though it's an option not a default position.

Every politician has said something that if taken out of context could suggest something different.

It would be better if they stopped saying something and started doing something.

 

Boom,boom.

[Heatwave]

50 states in the US, each with their own taxes and laws, not a problem in a federation.

 

The point that whotobeakiller was making was that we would be part of a European superstate, controlled by Brussels, which sounds very like an American superstate controlled by Washington. I agree with you that central control of the state in the USA is rather looser, most functions delegated to the fifty states as you say, but I haven't heard anyone - even from Brussels or Strasbourg - advocating a centralised state which would be idiotic even if true.

 

Anyway, the argument here is whether we remain part of the apparatus of Europe, which has bought us considerable economic advantage, or leave for an unknown and uncertain future. I know which one I'd prefer.

[Fosse69]

The point that whotobeakiller was making was that we would be part of a European superstate, controlled by Brussels, which sounds very like an American superstate controlled by Washington. I agree with you that central control of the state in the USA is rather looser, most functions delegated to the fifty states as you say, but I haven't heard anyone - even from Brussels or Strasbourg - advocating a centralised state which would be idiotic even if true.

 

Anyway, the argument here is whether we remain part of the apparatus of Europe, which has bought us considerable economic advantage, or leave for an unknown and uncertain future. I know which one I'd prefer.

Everything about the EU is overblown, our emphasis is to be able to trade worldwide, not that we don't now, whereas they put political cohesion with trade as the glue as their priority. We have the edge in insularity, whereas with time they can walk from Calais to Kowloon.

[For Us All]

Barnier - "If there's a No Deal we will have to find an operational way of carrying out checks and control without putting back in place a border".

So is a backstop needed at all?

[Fosse69]

Barnier - "If there's a No Deal we will have to find an operational way of carrying out checks and control without putting back in place a border".

So is a backstop needed at all?

Only needed for a deal, it is insurance against the UK dithering for ever. The EU and Ireland would then have to comply with WTO rules but within the International peace agreement between Ireland and N.Ireland, who knows how that would work out. Strange thing is the DUP did not sign that agreement. Clear cut but controversial solution would be referendums in both countries to end partition.

[Fosse69]

It's perfectly clear what he is saying no?

 

We have not left yet and therefore do not have sovereignty. In order to regain sovereignty we need to leave the EU. In order to leave the EU we need Parliament to not reverse or block the leave process.

 

Parliament will be sovereign when we've left. Until then it isn't.

 

If we were not sovereign, how did we hold a referendum with out the EU`s permission?

[whotobeakiller]

Everything about the EU is overblown, our emphasis is to be able to trade worldwide, not that we don't now, whereas they put political cohesion with trade as the glue as their priority. We have the edge in insularity, whereas with time they can walk from Calais to Kowloon.

 

Correct...further treaties woud direct that the UK are voted in to all anomalies within the EU...(Euro and Schengen as a couple of anomaies that spring to mind)

 

The HS2 project was no accident...it was a deliberate fact route that bridged the south west of the UK to all areas of the UK and is part of the synchronization to bring transport in the UK in line with Euro transport lines That is the big picture.

 

Who mandated this idea? Who elected or voted for HS2? No one in Stoke did yet the council (Stoke) poured thousands into paying high paid consultancy fees and we ended up with nothing...literally

 

That's the EU in a nutshell...invest in bigwig projects taking much needed money away from the poorest in society

 

Many people over the country are losing their homes as part of the ruthless tyranny of the project. The richest have a tunnel bypassing their properties (We are talking about people in the south)

 

How can you ensure a reasonable balance of immigration between countries like France in comparison to a country like ours?? Madness

 

Remainers ...wake up and smell the coffee

[Fosse69]

Correct...further treaties woud direct that the UK are voted in to all anomalies within the EU...(Euro and Schengen as a couple of anomaies that spring to mind)

 

The HS2 project was no accident...it was a deliberate fact route that bridged the south west of the UK to all areas of the UK and is part of the synchronization to bring transport in the UK in line with Euro transport lines That is the big picture.

 

Who mandated this idea? Who elected or voted for HS2? No one in Stoke did yet the council (Stoke) poured thousands into paying high paid consultancy fees and we ended up with nothing...literally

 

That's the EU in a nutshell...invest in bigwig projects taking much needed money away from the poorest in society

 

Many people over the country are losing their homes as part of the ruthless tyranny of the project. The richest have a tunnel bypassing their properties (We are talking about people in the south)

 

How can you ensure a reasonable balance of immigration between countries like France in comparison to a country like ours?? Madness

 

Remainers ...wake up and smell the coffee

The initial purpose of HS2 is to relieve future congestion between Euston and Rugby on the West Coast line, currently trains are limited to 2 a minute on any of the 4 tracks, before it is done Virgin are to add extra carriages to their peak trains. Not that Rugby as a town is that popular, but is where the spur off the West Coast goes to Coventry and the Birmingham stations. Of course the main thrust is commuter traffic to Birmingham from London, but it will also allow the West Coast line to be used for more freight and short distance traffic. Synchronisation has been going on for years, the raising of the Peterborough to Nuneaton, East to West Coast lines link to European standard was done a few years ago by raising bridges or lowering track, with EU funding to improve our infrastructure. Freight rail head to be provided at East Midlands airport. Is it 150 or 200 years since a mainline track was laid in the UK? Were we asleep when, France, Germany, Spain etc were building their modern systems? Back to diesels then for the UK?

[geosname]

The initial purpose of HS2 is to relieve future congestion between Euston and Rugby on the West Coast line, currently trains are limited to 2 a minute on any of the 4 tracks, before it is done Virgin are to add extra carriages to their peak trains. Not that Rugby as a town is that popular, but is where the spur off the West Coast goes to Coventry and the Birmingham stations. Of course the main thrust is commuter traffic to Birmingham from London, but it will also allow the West Coast line to be used for more freight and short distance traffic. Synchronisation has been going on for years, the raising of the Peterborough to Nuneaton, East to West Coast lines link to European standard was done a few years ago by raising bridges or lowering track, with EU funding to improve our infrastructure. Freight rail head to be provided at East Midlands airport. Is it 150 or 200 years since a mainline track was laid in the UK? Were we asleep when, France, Germany, Spain etc were building their modern systems? Back to diesels then for the UK?

 

Bring back the chuffas mate.

[Fosse69]

Bring back the chuffas mate.

Couldn't beat popping on the loop line in Hanley to watch the Vale in Burslem, what`s a bit of soot in your eyes.

[whotobeakiller]

The initial purpose of HS2 is to relieve future congestion between Euston and Rugby on the West Coast line, currently trains are limited to 2 a minute on any of the 4 tracks, before it is done Virgin are to add extra carriages to their peak trains. Not that Rugby as a town is that popular, but is where the spur off the West Coast goes to Coventry and the Birmingham stations. Of course the main thrust is commuter traffic to Birmingham from London, but it will also allow the West Coast line to be used for more freight and short distance traffic. Synchronisation has been going on for years, the raising of the Peterborough to Nuneaton, East to West Coast lines link to European standard was done a few years ago by raising bridges or lowering track, with EU funding to improve our infrastructure. Freight rail head to be provided at East Midlands airport. Is it 150 or 200 years since a mainline track was laid in the UK? Were we asleep when, France, Germany, Spain etc were building their modern systems? Back to diesels then for the UK?

At 56 billions pounds cost and increasing...i hope 'the people' consider it worthy spending at the expense of the poorest of us (The bottom 40%)

[Regal Beagle]

Why? He said it.

 

Because you are intentionally taking it out context to try and change the meaning of what he said.

 

When he was speaking is irrelevant, he said "it might make more sense". He clearly thought at that point that allowing a decision to be made on any deal was the sensible thing to do. I have never said I want a second referendum. Mr Rees Mogg has - what has changed his mind?

It is completely relevant, as I've already explained in my post the context in which he said it, and the time that he said it is part of that context.

 

Anything could have changed his mind in the last 8 years. 8 years is a very long time in politics. Furthermore, if you want to get overly technical, he actually says "it might make more sense" he didn't say that it does make more sense.

 

There were a lot of things we weren't told before the first referendum.

That's a shame that the remain side were so bad. Take it up with them though, nothing to do with the victors.

 

I disagree. It is undemocratic to fix a democratic decision in stone. You don't want another referendum. Fine. But nor do you want the decision to be revisted in a few years after we have seen the effects of Brexit. Surely that is undemocratic??

 

Have you made that up?

 

I'd think it would be wise to have another vote in a few years, but the democratic decision would be that we must leave and we must give leave a proper go.

 

To leave and then rejoin 1 or 2 years later is a joke. It would need to be 10 years to start reaping the full economic benefits that brexit will bring. Afterall, your lot keep banging on about how difficult trade deals are to strike.

[Regal Beagle]

If we were not sovereign, how did we hold a referendum with out the EU`s permission?

 

We didn't hold a referendum without the EU's permission?

[Fosse69]

At 56 billions pounds cost and increasing...i hope 'the people' consider it worthy spending at the expense of the poorest of us (The bottom 40%)

Infrastructure does not come cheap, we could have spent the oil money keeping up with our neighbours. Don't expect lots of spending after Brexit.

[Fosse69]

We didn't hold a referendum without the EU's permission?

We have always been sovereign since one of our former kings had his head chopped off, so did not need to ask our so called rulers in the EU.