Brexit again...

[Paul6754]

Yet another warning from a manufacturing company that Brexit threatens UK investment but I guess no one should be concerned 'cause it's just not going to happen, it's just scaremongering.....so it's thought. Greatly reduced immigration and the 350m/week to the NHS is much a better bet and much more likely!!!

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44719656

[geosname]

I'm not suggesting that all people who voted to leave are thick but in response to a post about poor areas voting to leave my response is surely they aren't mad enough to vote to make themselves worse off so I strongly suspect they were not aware of, or were in denial of, the highly likely prospect of their being worse off due to the highly likely detrimental effect leaving the EU will have on our economy.

Let's be honest, a very large portion of the electorate are not very well informed and do not trouble themselves to become informed. This is one of the major flaws of democracy and one of the reasons holding referendums on highly complex issues is not a good idea, hence we have elected representatives who are, supposedly, experts in politics. People voted leave or remain for whatever reasons they had, personally I have seen very, very few reasons given to leave that I either agree with or think are worthy reasons to leave but if someone thinks, somehow, we'll have a better economy or immigration will be properly controlled or our laws will improve people's rights that's their prerogative. I'm a socialist, republican and a Europhile and I have known all my adult life my political views are not the most popular but at least I am politically aware, keep myself informed and think with my head not my heart. Unfortunately many of the poor and less well educated are not politically aware, informed and rational and I think many of them were sold a pup in the referendum and will pay a heavy price for it.

I respect everyone who gets off their backside and votes, even if I totally disagree with them. The people I have no respect for are those who couldn't be bothered to vote, especially on such a massive issue as EU membership. Even if they don't agree with something or there are no candidates they wish to vote for they should at least spoil their voting slip in protest (I think there should be a 'none of the above' option on voting papers).

Good post. Can't say I agree with it in it's entirety, but I respect your opinion.

I'm nether a Republican, Europhile or a Socialist (I don't think).

[SourceOfTheTrent]

Well,you'll be pleased to know I've managed to locate two MEP's who represent my party,one lives 70 miles away in Kenilworth and the other lives 106 miles away in Ross-on-Wye.Not exactly on the doorstep but there you go.

I wonder what percentage of voters know who their MEP is.

Got any stats?

There are 7 MEPs representing the West Midlands constituency, elected using a proportional representation system. In my view this is much more democratic than first-past-the-post.

Through your professed attitude of not caring about the EU and not knowing even the basics of your representation in it you are illustrating an attitude of blind dismissal, you're obviously not interested in judging it in a balanced way you're just against our being in it. How can you be against something that, by your own admission, you don't care about and don't know a great deal about?

[aspin for england]

I'm not suggesting that all people who voted to leave are thick but in response to a post about poor areas voting to leave my response is surely they aren't mad enough to vote to make themselves worse off so I strongly suspect they were not aware of, or were in denial of, the highly likely prospect of their being worse off due to the highly likely detrimental effect leaving the EU will have on our economy.

Let's be honest, a very large portion of the electorate are not very well informed and do not trouble themselves to become informed. This is one of the major flaws of democracy and one of the reasons holding referendums on highly complex issues is not a good idea, hence we have elected representatives who are, supposedly, experts in politics. People voted leave or remain for whatever reasons they had, personally I have seen very, very few reasons given to leave that I either agree with or think are worthy reasons to leave but if someone thinks, somehow, we'll have a better economy or immigration will be properly controlled or our laws will improve people's rights that's their prerogative. I'm a socialist, republican and a Europhile and I have known all my adult life my political views are not the most popular but at least I am politically aware, keep myself informed and think with my head not my heart. Unfortunately many of the poor and less well educated are not politically aware, informed and rational and I think many of them were sold a pup in the referendum and will pay a heavy price for it.

I respect everyone who gets off their backside and votes, even if I totally disagree with them. The people I have no respect for are those who couldn't be bothered to vote, especially on such a massive issue as EU membership. Even if they don't agree with something or there are no candidates they wish to vote for they should at least spoil their voting slip in protest (I think there should be a 'none of the above' option on voting papers).

 

Im not suggesting that all people who voted leave are thick but...……….Alarge portion of the electorate are not very well informed...….aren't mad enough to vote to make themselves worse off...…. Unfortunateley many of the poor and less well educated are not politically aware,informed and rational...……. So this is how your take on people who have a different opinion to you . Of course YOUR opinion is so right. My God, what a patronising ,arrogant, head up your own ar5e post . Obviously having a problem accepting the vote .

[geosname]

There are 7 MEPs representing the West Midlands constituency, elected using a proportional representation system. In my view this is much more democratic than first-past-the-post.

Through your professed attitude of not caring about the EU and not knowing even the basics of your representation in it you are illustrating an attitude of blind dismissal, you're obviously not interested in judging it in a balanced way you're just against our being in it. How can you be against something that, by your own admission, you don't care about and don't know a great deal about?

I'm not sure the fist past the post system is less democratic than prop rep, as neither takes account of the "none of the above" none voters.

I think the party system is faulty, simply because the mps represent the party more than the constituency. Not always.

I'm more inclined to believe it's not the system but the people in it and/or control it who are faulty... it's the abuse of the system that gives it a bad reputation.

[SourceOfTheTrent]

I'm not sure the fist past the post system is less democratic than prop rep, as neither takes account of the "none of the above" none voters.

I think the party system is faulty, simply because the mps represent the party more than the constituency. Not always.

I'm more inclined to believe it's not the system but the people in it and/or control it who are faulty... it's the abuse of the system that gives it a bad reputation.

Fair points. As you said in an earlier post democracy may be a flawed system but there's nothing humans have come up with that's better.

 

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[SourceOfTheTrent]

Im not suggesting that all people who voted leave are thick but...……….Alarge portion of the electorate are not very well informed...….aren't mad enough to vote to make themselves worse off...…. Unfortunateley many of the poor and less well educated are not politically aware,informed and rational...……. So this is how your take on people who have a different opinion to you . Of course YOUR opinion is so right. My God, what a patronising ,arrogant, head up your own ar5e post . Obviously having a problem accepting the vote .

Nothing arrogant about your personally insulting post is there? Nothing arrogant about Brexiteers in general also spouting rubbish like 'Remoaners' and 'project fear' and 'you lost get over it' whilst people like Bill Cash didn't accept the vote to join and have spent 45 years not getting over it.

If you consider me arrogant, fine but when confronted by stupidity what do you expect?

 

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[For Us All]

But still not as imperfect as the feudal monarchist system with a partially hereditary and totally unelected second chamber to which we are subject in the UK. I would like to change that system but I'm not going to be able to unless I am either part of the UK or part of a victorious invading force, ie, the ways in which political changes are brought about.

Also, bragging about not knowing who your MEP is does not mean the EU electoral system is no good it just demonstrates your own ignorance on the matter, the same as for people who don't know who their local MP is or who the Prime Minister is.

Keep 'em coming!

 

It seems I'm not the only one who doesn't know who their MEP is?

Just goes to show how useful and relevant they are.

And this from the Guardian as well.

Over to you.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/10/voters-cant-name-their-mep

[geosname]

It seems I'm not the only one who doesn't know who their MEP is?

Just goes to show how useful and relevant they are.

And this from the Guardian as well.

Over to you.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/10/voters-cant-name-their-mep

Surely it's up to you to find out who represents you in whatever forum you need representation.

You may not have a solicitor but if you needed one you would probably seek one out PDQ.

Ďo you have a doctor? Not a medical practice or surgery... an appointed doctor?

I would suggest not many know/remember who their EMP is simply because they have never had the need to know/remember.

[Fosse69]

Surely it's up to you to find out who represents you in whatever forum you need representation.

You may not have a solicitor but if you needed one you would probably seek one out PDQ.

Ďo you have a doctor? Not a medical practice or surgery... an appointed doctor?

I would suggest not many know/remember who their EMP is simply because they have never had the need to know/remember.

I doubt if many people know who their MEPs are. In the East Midlands I have the choice of 6, pick either Lab, Con or Kipper should I need advice or whatever. I didn't know that, but tapped the keyboard and there it was.

[Fosse69]

I'm not sure the fist past the post system is less democratic than prop rep, as neither takes account of the "none of the above" none voters.

I think the party system is faulty, simply because the mps represent the party more than the constituency. Not always.

I'm more inclined to believe it's not the system but the people in it and/or control it who are faulty... it's the abuse of the system that gives it a bad reputation.

The US President voting form has a none of the above facility, any name can be inserted. Not that I would use the US Billionaire competition as an example of democracy.

[For Us All]

Surely it's up to you to find out who represents you in whatever forum you need representation.

You may not have a solicitor but if you needed one you would probably seek one out PDQ.

Ďo you have a doctor? Not a medical practice or surgery... an appointed doctor?

I would suggest not many know/remember who their EMP is simply because they have never had the need to know/remember.

 

Yes,but I don't have to vote for my doctor or solicitor.

On the other hand don't you think they could try a little harder to connect with their constituencies?There is virtually zero relationship between citizens and the EU or any of the European institutions.

[capirex]

Many of the UK members are only there to undermine the organisation whilst trousering their large salary for not representing their constituents. Especially the rable formally known as UKIP.

[Heatwave]

Yes,but I don't have to vote for my doctor or solicitor.

On the other hand don't you think they could try a little harder to connect with their constituencies?There is virtually zero relationship between citizens and the EU or any of the European institutions.

 

Point taken - but it doesn't mean it's a bad system, just that it's not being implemented properly. It's a moot point though as in any case we're not going to be part of it after next March.

[geosname]

Yes,but I don't have to vote for my doctor or solicitor.

On the other hand don't you think they could try a little harder to connect with their constituencies?There is virtually zero relationship between citizens and the EU or any of the European institutions.

But you have to choose them given the options available.