Brexit again...

[Thevalefan]

There were 2.29 million EU nationals working in the UK, 28,000 fewer than for a year earlier. Out of a total of 2.9 million EU nationals in the UK. There were 1.25 million non-EU nationals working in the UK, 20,000 more than for a year earlier (2016). Also, I might add that non-eu nationals tend to work in different ways such as takeaways, barber shops, taxi drivers etc which are all prone to avoiding full tax payments etc. Go and have a look down Tunstall High street or Waterloo Road. It's much more cash in hand but look at companies such as Bentley Motors (example off top of my head), there are a fair few EU nationals who work legitimately like the rest of us.

 

If EU nationals don't contribute to society within 3 months then we are legally allowed to send them back to their country, that's an EU law you never talk about. With non-eu nationals, we can't do it. So EU workers here are not the problem at all and in fact in London you will find a high percentage of highly skilled EU workers in various industries. Bar America, Japan, Korea ( and some Asian nations) Europe has a much much higher standard of education. Not all of it, but most of it does. Culture as well as education plays a large role in socialising people correctly within a society.

 

We already take the most skilled workers too in doctors, engineers (as we have a massive shortage)R&D researchers etc. We do because we pay higher/more competitive wages.

 

You can say what you like, but this will only be a smoke screen to bring in more unskilled foreigners to saturate wage growth which is what has been allowed to happen for years and years.

 

And anyway, if we are great big powerful mighty Britain who can go it alone... why don't we invest heavily in our education systems and get British people into skilled jobs???

 

You vote to come out based on immigration but are happy for it to continue so long as there are low-skilled jobs available for English people and the skilled jobs can go to foreigners (most likely from Muslim countries too as Javid's preference will no doubt be that, we know his mate Khan would love it!). Fantastic logic.

 

Go and look how cheap Indian people will do work for you. A good example, a project I worked on developing an APP for business management was quoted by several web developers from anywhere between £80,000-130,000 for a finished product. We looked at India and got it done for £10,000 by 5 guys all with PHd's and only paid a £2500 deposit upfront.

If we bring these kinds of people to the UK, as they are highly educated, they will only push the wages down from what they are now meaning any young people with aspirations of being a skilled worker will then earn less than they should due to saturation of the job market.

 

You know it makes sense?

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-migration-non-eu-net-migration-to-uk-overtakes-from-eu/

 

Will leave this here, but the levels of stupidity on display indicate no one will probably bother to read it.

 

Regal Beagle - instead of shouting project fear or fake statistics try and disprove them in a coherent logical manner if you can :D

[Thevalefan]

Of course nothing has changed regarding immigration, we haven't left yet.

 

But bringing in immigrants from other parts of the world, as long as they're skilled and have a job here, what a fantastic improvement that would be.

 

No, nothing has changed and nothing will change. They've said immigration will continue. More EU nationals in work in the UK than non-EU nationals, not to mention the number of illegal immigrants here which know one even knows!!

 

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6135773/immigration-crisis-laid-bare-as-27000-illegal-immigrants-arrested-in-britain-over-four-years/

 

I know you like big bright tabloid papers with easy words so there you go :)

 

*and say we do let say 100,000 non-eu skilled workers into the UK. If they on average have 3 kids, within a few years that becomes 400,000 and continues to grow and grow there is no guarantee these kids will grow up to be skilled workers, they could become the opposite and then you'll be crying about letting them in to begin with!!

 

I thought Brexit was about Britain and Britain only for you lot, so how giving skilled jobs to people from all around the world for Britain is good just sums up the mind-boggling logic on display within this thread!!

[Thevalefan]

Sick to your made up stats.

 

I'm moving upwards with the British majority. Joining the rest of the world.

 

Are you a bit simple? Highlight any statistics that are faked. You debate like a kid in the playground! "My dad said this"

 

Even your own Govt who you place all trust in have done several impact reports (that the Govt didn't want releasing) and all the facts, research, statistics from them themselves conclude in any circumstance it will make us worse off in the long run!

 

Unless you had a hedge fund, but I doubt that!

[Thevalefan]

https://www.ft.com/content/c04ebdb6-ee09-11e7-b220-857e26d1aca4

 

What would stop the EU trying to undercut us in these deals we need to prioritise? That's what happens in corporate business and State - To - State is no different. As Fosse has said repeatedly on here, who can offer better terms... a big customer or a small customer? Collectively the EU will always be more powerful than a single UK. The US is so powerful because its states are United enabling higher negotiating power and influence.

 

Its not rocket science, but I'm starting to see why none of you have aspirations for high skilled jobs and would rather Johnny Foriegner come in and take them away from your future generations! Crazy!

[Regal Beagle]

There were 2.29 million EU nationals working in the UK, 28,000 fewer than for a year earlier. Out of a total of 2.9 million EU nationals in the UK. There were 1.25 million non-EU nationals working in the UK, 20,000 more than for a year earlier (2016). Also, I might add that non-eu nationals tend to work in different ways such as takeaways, barber shops, taxi drivers etc which are all prone to avoiding full tax payments etc. Go and have a look down Tunstall High street or Waterloo Road. It's much more cash in hand but look at companies such as Bentley Motors (example off top of my head), there are a fair few EU nationals who work legitimately like the rest of us.

 

If EU nationals don't contribute to society within 3 months then we are legally allowed to send them back to their country, that's an EU law you never talk about. With non-eu nationals, we can't do it. So EU workers here are not the problem at all and in fact in London you will find a high percentage of highly skilled EU workers in various industries. Bar America, Japan, Korea ( and some Asian nations) Europe has a much much higher standard of education. Not all of it, but most of it does. Culture as well as education plays a large role in socialising people correctly within a society.

 

We already take the most skilled workers too in doctors, engineers (as we have a massive shortage)R&D researchers etc. We do because we pay higher/more competitive wages.

 

You can say what you like, but this will only be a smoke screen to bring in more unskilled foreigners to saturate wage growth which is what has been allowed to happen for years and years.

 

And anyway, if we are great big powerful mighty Britain who can go it alone... why don't we invest heavily in our education systems and get British people into skilled jobs???

 

You vote to come out based on immigration but are happy for it to continue so long as there are low-skilled jobs available for English people and the skilled jobs can go to foreigners (most likely from Muslim countries too as Javid's preference will no doubt be that, we know his mate Khan would love it!). Fantastic logic.

 

Go and look how cheap Indian people will do work for you. A good example, a project I worked on developing an APP for business management was quoted by several web developers from anywhere between £80,000-130,000 for a finished product. We looked at India and got it done for £10,000 by 5 guys all with PHd's and only paid a £2500 deposit upfront.

If we bring these kinds of people to the UK, as they are highly educated, they will only push the wages down from what they are now meaning any young people with aspirations of being a skilled worker will then earn less than they should due to saturation of the job market.

 

You know it makes sense?

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-migration-non-eu-net-migration-to-uk-overtakes-from-eu/

 

Will leave this here, but the levels of stupidity on display indicate no one will probably bother to read it.

 

Regal Beagle - instead of shouting project fear or fake statistics try and disprove them in a coherent logical manner if you can :D

 

Well I've been asking for some stats but you are the first person to have a go.

 

You've posted a lot of numbers but I'm not really sure you've proven anything? An anecdotal story about getting some cheap work done in India - I work for a technology company and we've got Indians working for us that are on the same money as everyone else, I'm not trying to make sweeping generalizations about it though.

 

You also assume that I think we should offer low skilled jobs to British people? Where has that even come from?

 

It's a strange argument too that many non-eu immigrants don't pay full tax. Is that a reason to stop barbers and takeaway owners coming into the country? Or is it something that the Government should look to rectify? You are very good at coming up with small problems for brexit arguments, as if that's enough to say "oh yeah, good point, there's a Pakistani barber in Tunstall who doesn't declare his full income, best stick with the EU" - how can you even jump to that conclusion?

 

It's a classic remain post in my opinion, you've put up a few figures and a few stumbling blocks but the big picture will always be - when we're a fully sovereign nation again we can hold our government to account properly. These problems you are so sure about can be resolved. The problems with the EU cannot.

[Regal Beagle]

Are you a bit simple? Highlight any statistics that are faked. You debate like a kid in the playground! "My dad said this"

 

Even your own Govt who you place all trust in have done several impact reports (that the Govt didn't want releasing) and all the facts, research, statistics from them themselves conclude in any circumstance it will make us worse off in the long run!

 

Unless you had a hedge fund, but I doubt that!

 

The Government impact reports that you hold in such high regard even admit that it is almost impossible to predict the outcome of brexit.

 

Again, drag it back onto the Economy though and claim you've got a cystal ball that can see the future.

 

People didn't vote to leave because of the economy. They primarily voted due to immigration concerns and sovereignty. The remain side gave us all the scare stories before the vote, it wasn't enough to change our mind. The people want to leave, and some dodgy guess work stats were not enough to change that.

[Thevalefan]

Well I've been asking for some stats but you are the first person to have a go.

 

You've posted a lot of numbers but I'm not really sure you've proven anything? An anecdotal story about getting some cheap work done in India - I work for a technology company and we've got Indians working for us that are on the same money as everyone else, I'm not trying to make sweeping generalizations about it though.

 

You also assume that I think we should offer low skilled jobs to British people? Where has that even come from?

 

It's a strange argument too that many non-eu immigrants don't pay full tax. Is that a reason to stop barbers and takeaway owners coming into the country? Or is it something that the Government should look to rectify? You are very good at coming up with small problems for brexit arguments, as if that's enough to say "oh yeah, good point, there's a Pakistani barber in Tunstall who doesn't declare his full income, best stick with the EU" - how can you even jump to that conclusion?

 

It's a classic remain post in my opinion, you've put up a few figures and a few stumbling blocks but the big picture will always be - when we're a fully sovereign nation again we can hold our government to account properly. These problems you are so sure about can be resolved. The problems with the EU cannot.

 

You live in total ignorance mate and I feel slightly bad for you. Only slightly though. Do you need everything spoon fed to you or just believe things on face value. Look at what I put, check those numbers out and then return and apologies to me.

 

The fact your waving your union jack about and suggesting bringing foreign skilled workers for better jobs, without suggesting Brexit could be a turning point in getting more skilled British workers employed and tackling the skills shortage we are experiencing tells me you hold the narrative that uneducated EU nationals are coming and taking jobs away from your average Brit!! Be more clear in what you say.

 

What are these specific problems with EU that have affect your life so badly, and the lives of the UK population so badly? What do you want to hold our government accountable for? I am moaning because I want them to be accountable for the lies we have been sold!

 

Is your hoover not a high enough Wattage or something?

Since being in the EU, we have developed 10-fold to the point everyone in the world wants to come here...

 

The small problems snowball into the big problems, but you appear to ignorant to understand that! Yeah of course we have Indians working here now, and good people they are too, but if we saturate our job market with highly skilled workers as such then it is guaranteed to push down the wages people earn as they are more likely to be willing to earn less as it's still monumentally more than what they can earn in their home country.

 

So you disagree with me that Non-EU nationals are more prone to operate in that way? Your either playing devils advocate to regain some integrity in the argument or very very naive. Europeans are the most culturally compatible people to us. Non-EU immigration is why the UK has lost it's identity in my opinion (Before you go two-footed on fake facts!). There are areas that are unrecognisable in the UK, Bradford or Luton as an example - whereas can you think of any renowned areas of the UK that have deteriorated so much due to high numbers of EU nationals congregating in a certain place?

[Regal Beagle]

https://www.ft.com/content/c04ebdb6-ee09-11e7-b220-857e26d1aca4

 

What would stop the EU trying to undercut us in these deals we need to prioritise? That's what happens in corporate business and State - To - State is no different. As Fosse has said repeatedly on here, who can offer better terms... a big customer or a small customer? Collectively the EU will always be more powerful than a single UK. The US is so powerful because its states are United enabling higher negotiating power and influence.

 

Its not rocket science, but I'm starting to see why none of you have aspirations for high skilled jobs and would rather Johnny Foriegner come in and take them away from your future generations! Crazy!

 

The EU can't just undercut us, they have the interests of 27 member states to go through before they make a deal and it can take them years to resolve any issues if one of those member states will be worse off, thus making the other 26 member states worse off whilst they wait.

 

Why do you think EU scepticism is increasing almost throughout the whole of the EU?

[Regal Beagle]

You live in total ignorance mate and I feel slightly bad for you. Only slightly though. Do you need everything spoon fed to you or just believe things on face value. Look at what I put, check those numbers out and then return and apologies to me.

 

The fact your waving your union jack about and suggesting bringing foreign skilled workers for better jobs, without suggesting Brexit could be a turning point in getting more skilled British workers employed and tackling the skills shortage we are experiencing tells me you hold the narrative that uneducated EU nationals are coming and taking jobs away from your average Brit!! Be more clear in what you say.

 

What are these specific problems with EU that have affect your life so badly, and the lives of the UK population so badly? What do you want to hold our government accountable for? I am moaning because I want them to be accountable for the lies we have been sold!

 

Is your hoover not a high enough Wattage or something?

Since being in the EU, we have developed 10-fold to the point everyone in the world wants to come here...

 

The small problems snowball into the big problems, but you appear to ignorant to understand that! Yeah of course we have Indians working here now, and good people they are too, but if we saturate our job market with highly skilled workers as such then it is guaranteed to push down the wages people earn as they are more likely to be willing to earn less as it's still monumentally more than what they can earn in their home country.

 

So you disagree with me that Non-EU nationals are more prone to operate in that way? Your either playing devils advocate to regain some integrity in the argument or very very naive. Europeans are the most culturally compatible people to us. Non-EU immigration is why the UK has lost it's identity in my opinion (Before you go two-footed on fake facts!). There are areas that are unrecognisable in the UK, Bradford or Luton as an example - whereas can you think of any renowned areas of the UK that have deteriorated so much due to high numbers of EU nationals congregating in a certain place?

 

Haha ok. There's no point if you are going to guess what I believe and stick to it even after I tell you that you are wrong.

 

I'm all for a debate on immigration. We'll have that debate after we've left the EU and regained full control of immigration.

 

Try and reply without using 'Union Jack' 'Johnny Foreigner' or any other garbage that you are trying to impose on us.

[Thevalefan]

The Government impact reports that you hold in such high regard even admit that it is almost impossible to predict the outcome of brexit.

 

Again, drag it back onto the Economy though and claim you've got a cystal ball that can see the future.

 

 

 

So your basically saying that these experts etc are all scare mongering and the research they've done is a load of twaddle? When I have helped set up start up's a massive amount of research analysis is done in order to appropriate a correct strategy for the business, even this is not 100% concrete factual substance as things constantly change but it gives a very good indication for a business. It's no different in this circumstance. If your company did research and it suggested the organisation would be worse off following that direction, would they do it? Probably not.

 

If you want sovereignty back (whatever you actually mean by that) and immigration to stop (which it wont) at the expense of our economy then you will be the one paying the highest price in the long run.

 

We will agree to disagree but in 10 years time we can have a pint in Burslem and talk about how it all went

[Thevalefan]

Haha ok. There's no point if you are going to guess what I believe and stick to it even after I tell you that you are wrong.

 

I'm all for a debate on immigration. We'll have that debate after we've left the EU and regained full control of immigration.

 

Try and reply without using 'Union Jack' 'Johnny Foreigner' or any other garbage that you are trying to impose on us.

 

Try and reply by answering some of my questions as I have to you. That's how a debate works. You have made many assumptions aswell from what I can see, such as Remain voters think you're all racists, fascists etc etc. You are also assuming any statistics entered are all faked and lies. Without even bothering to go and check them out for yourself.

 

You've taken the easy way out and ducked away from this one but fair is fair if you cannot then you cannot. No worries.

[Regal Beagle]

So your basically saying that these experts etc are all scare mongering and the research they've done is a load of twaddle? When I have helped set up start up's a massive amount of research analysis is done in order to appropriate a correct strategy for the business, even this is not 100% concrete factual substance as things constantly change but it gives a very good indication for a business. It's no different in this circumstance. If your company did research and it suggested the organisation would be worse off following that direction, would they do it? Probably not.

 

If you want sovereignty back (whatever you actually mean by that) and immigration to stop (which it wont) at the expense of our economy then you will be the one paying the highest price in the long run.

 

We will agree to disagree but in 10 years time we can have a pint in Burslem and talk about how it all went

 

Ask the people that did the reports why they felt the need to put that disclaimer in. It's all guess work.

 

I don't want to stop immigration, never said that once. I don't even know yet whether I'm in favour of reducing immigration, but like I say, that is another debate for after we have left.

 

I'll meet you for a pint in Burslem in 10 years. We can discuss how unrecognisable the bustling high street is :)

[Regal Beagle]

Try and reply by answering some of my questions as I have to you. That's how a debate works. You have made many assumptions aswell from what I can see, such as Remain voters think you're all racists, fascists etc etc. You are also assuming any statistics entered are all faked and lies. Without even bothering to go and check them out for yourself.

 

You've taken the easy way out and ducked away from this one but fair is fair if you cannot then you cannot. No worries.

 

I checked them myself. I'll say it for the sixth time, even the report you quote has a disclaimer that it is almost impossible to predict the future of the economy post brexit.

 

I'm not assuming that brexit voters are called racist, we get called racist all the time, and even when we don't get called racist, we get silly union jack and johnny foreigner jibes chucked in instead.

 

I'm pro immigration generally speaking. I don't think our system works at all currently. I can't be clearer than that.

[Fosse69]

Haha ok. There's no point if you are going to guess what I believe and stick to it even after I tell you that you are wrong.

 

I'm all for a debate on immigration. We'll have that debate after we've left the EU and regained full control of immigration.

 

Try and reply without using 'Union Jack' 'Johnny Foreigner' or any other garbage that you are trying to impose on us.

Control of immigration needs ID cards, far better to not have them say UK politicians, it creates arguments and uncertainties that politicians love.

[Fosse69]

I checked them myself. I'll say it for the sixth time, even the report you quote has a disclaimer that it is almost impossible to predict the future of the economy post brexit.

 

I'm not assuming that brexit voters are called racist, we get called racist all the time, and even when we don't get called racist, we get silly union jack and johnny foreigner jibes chucked in instead.

 

I'm pro immigration generally speaking. I don't think our system works at all currently. I can't be clearer than that.

Impossible to predict anything if you do not know what it is. Ridiculous to do anything if you do not know the consequencies.