Brexit again...

[geosname]

41 minutes ago, Aussie Rules said:

'Hello voters"

I think everything a politician says should be pefaced with those two words.... especially now

[geosname]

Scotland's highest civil court is set to consider a legal bid to stop the UK government from passing its proposed EU withdrawal agreement.

[Aussie Rules]

5 minutes ago, geosname said:

Scotland's highest civil court is set to consider a legal bid to stop the UK government from passing its proposed EU withdrawal agreement.

If Parliament is sitting tomorrow they'll need to get a move on.

[The_godfather]

7 hours ago, Andyregs said:

Do you support the deal? Isn’t it being reported that the deal is the same as mays, but with a tweaked backstop? I thought mays deal was terrible? 

It's not a backstop any more - it's a front stop.

One that creates a customs border between mainland Britain and NI, when Alexander de Pfeffel himself said (to the DUP conference in 2018)

"No British Conservative government could or should sign up" to regulatory checks and customs controls on the Irish Sea, adding that to do so would be “damaging [to] the fabric of the Union.” : 

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/watch-boris-johnson-tell-the-dup-in-2018-he-would-never-put-border-in-the-irish-sea-today-he-put-a-border-in-the-irish-sea-1-9110754

 

But it's what people wanted, right? It's a 'fair, balanced deal' according to the dear leader... It's what they voted for, which they knew was what they voted for. It's democracy.

 

[The_godfather]

On 17/10/2019 at 14:15, geosname said:

Your talking party politics to a national crisis.

It was never a good idea to have the referendum..... it was irresponsible to have it without knowing the actual mechanics of the process..... and stating the decision to honour the result without knowing was reckless.

The whole of parliament is responsible for the mess we are in not the people who voted on the question asked.

Brexit should never have been a party political issue..... the Tories screwed that from the beginning, everyone else jumped on the bandwagon sadly..... they dug a whole and seem to keep on digging.

Geo, I'm not talking party politics, that's a framework that you are attaching because that's the way people try to make sense of what is happening. From what's occurred with splits, defections, etc in Parliament, that's not necessarily useful, it's only part of the picture.

It's clear that the referendum was a farce. It's clearer still that since then, things have become increasingly more farcical. That's like saying the sky is blue.

My point is that the system is working exactly as intended - providing forum for debate, for opposition, for nuance as there should be, yet there are hypocrites who claim, nay justify, leaving the EU on the basis that it prevents the UK from being "independent", from being able to do exactly what it is currently doing. Based on the last 3 years, do you think Britain will thrive as an 'independent' (lol) country? Have our leaders demonstrated themselves to be pantheons of wisdom, innovation, strategy? Have people reached out to understand beyond their own narrow worldviews, or tried to increase their knowledge of how things work? This thread is a microcosm of the entire tawdry spectacle.

Any crisis is not the cause of politicians inaction, but the symptom of a truly dreadful idea in the first place. You only have to look at the people that champion it to think - is this really a good idea? Jacob Rees-Mogg, Mark Francois, Andrea Jenkyns, Ian Duncan Smith, John Redwood, Steve Baker, Owen Paterson, Andrew Bridgen, Kate Hoey, Julie Hartley Brewer, Nigel Farage, Arron Banks, Timothy Martin. Shall I go on? Do these sound like the kind of people that the UK should be thinking - do you know what, those guys know what's best for us?

[Andyregs]

6 hours ago, For Us All said:

You talk about liars,the biggest liars are the EU who stated that the would never open the withdrawal agreement.

Isn’t the main change (the Irish border solution) something the eu originally suggested but boris said he would never accept?

[geosname]

3 hours ago, The_godfather said:

Geo, I'm not talking party politics, that's a framework that you are attaching because that's the way people try to make sense of what is happening. From what's occurred with splits, defections, etc in Parliament, that's not necessarily useful, it's only part of the picture.

It's clear that the referendum was a farce. It's clearer still that since then, things have become increasingly more farcical. That's like saying the sky is blue.

My point is that the system is working exactly as intended - providing forum for debate, for opposition, for nuance as there should be, yet there are hypocrites who claim, nay justify, leaving the EU on the basis that it prevents the UK from being "independent", from being able to do exactly what it is currently doing. Based on the last 3 years, do you think Britain will thrive as an 'independent' (lol) country? Have our leaders demonstrated themselves to be pantheons of wisdom, innovation, strategy? Have people reached out to understand beyond their own narrow worldviews, or tried to increase their knowledge of how things work? This thread is a microcosm of the entire tawdry spectacle.

Any crisis is not the cause of politicians inaction, but the symptom of a truly dreadful idea in the first place. You only have to look at the people that champion it to think - is this really a good idea? Jacob Rees-Mogg, Mark Francois, Andrea Jenkyns, Ian Duncan Smith, John Redwood, Steve Baker, Owen Paterson, Andrew Bridgen, Kate Hoey, Julie Hartley Brewer, Nigel Farage, Arron Banks, Timothy Martin. Shall I go on? Do these sound like the kind of people that the UK should be thinking - do you know what, those guys know what's best for us?

You could have added jezza to the list.

[geosname]

5 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Lol at the fools thinking this proves Johnson wants a deal.

He had negotiated a deal he doesnt think has a chance, he will <ovf censored> himself if this gets passed through Parliment tomorrow.

 

Quite literally he and the usual suspects on here, point scoring with everyone's future...  sad and pathetic individuals.

Boris wants to win an election. Championing brexit will win him votes. If it gets through parliament, which I doubt, he will be the people's champion, if it falls the blame will be deflected onto any suitable candidates.

[geosname]

7 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

All because people have decided leaving the EU is the most important issue in the world ever, even though NONE of you gave it a second thought prior to the referendum being called.

Being stuck in limbo is the most important thing to the people it affects, leavers and remainers.

[For Us All]

5 hours ago, Aussie Rules said:

Hmm, maybe, maybe not FUA.

'Hello voters, just got back from Brussels with a deal to tickle your belly buttons (to self: I know it will fail the test in Parliament). I truly want this deal for you (to self: personally I couldn't a toss because I know it will fall at the first hurdle - leaving me the good guy). No need to thank me - just your vote next time will suffice.'

Yes,he's playing a blinder here Barry.

When all the Remainers vote it down tomorrow in parliament they will all be branded the naughty guys,who never wanted a deal.

It will trigger a general election and the jobs a good 'un.

[geosname]

5 hours ago, Aussie Rules said:

If Parliament is sitting tomorrow they'll need to get a move on.

Being heard this morning and prepared to sit this evening for an appeal ???

The door is open and people are walking through.

[Fosse69]

4 hours ago, Andyregs said:

Isn’t the main change (the Irish border solution) something the eu originally suggested but boris said he would never accept?

Talk now that DUP will vote against it not just abstain, thus throwing the DUP under the bus part of a dastardly plan? 

[Fosse69]

36 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Yes,he's playing a blinder here Barry.

When all the Remainers vote it down tomorrow in parliament they will all be branded the naughty guys,who never wanted a deal.

It will trigger a general election and the jobs a good 'un.

4 parties in a 2 party system, bookies paradise. Will Johnson be changing seats for a safer one?

[Fosse69]

Since Scotland voted to remain, as did NI, will they be able to stay in both markets too?

[For Us All]

11 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

4 parties in a 2 party system, bookies paradise. Will Johnson be changing seats for a safer one?

Bring it on.