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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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7 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

That’s because there is no possible deal that will leave us better off than we are at the moment. And if anyone says “control” or “sovereignty” I shall not be responsible for my actions. 

"If you can't remove the people who are in control of you,you are not living in a democracy".

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When the result was announced everyone thought they knew what was going to happen..... the .U.K.would leave the EU.... that's what people were asked to vote on, that's exactly what they did.

It's not up to the masses to deliver on that result, that's the job of the elected and accordingly both major parties vowed to honour the result to leave.

People voted for an end result, not the nuts and bolts of how that end result will be achieved.

It seems to me the politicians are saying..... we can't do the job we were elected to do, the public made the wrong choice so let's ask the public to make another choice as long as it's the choice we want.... or... we have screwed up but it's your fault we screwed up because you made the wrong choice so we are going to make you choose again.... the choices are...

1 leave...... which we won't allow to happen even if you vote for it.

2 remain.... because that's easier.

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36 minutes ago, geosname said:

When the result was announced everyone thought they knew what was going to happen..... the .U.K.would leave the EU.... that's what people were asked to vote on, that's exactly what they did.

It's not up to the masses to deliver on that result, that's the job of the elected and accordingly both major parties vowed to honour the result to leave.

People voted for an end result, not the nuts and bolts of how that end result will be achieved.

It seems to me the politicians are saying..... we can't do the job we were elected to do, the public made the wrong choice so let's ask the public to make another choice as long as it's the choice we want.... or... we have screwed up but it's your fault we screwed up because you made the wrong choice so we are going to make you choose again.... the choices are...

1 leave...... which we won't allow to happen even if you vote for it.

2 remain.... because that's easier.

Except that's utter, utter bollock$ isn't it?

I don't really understand what people who voted Leave are complaining about? Everything that has happened since the referendum in 2016 has been in the pursuit of Brexit. You got exactly what you asked for. There was a small mandate for Leave at the time, it would arguably be smaller, if not reversed if run again now, and Parliament has spent 3+ years talking about how to achieve it. The next 10 years will be spent trying to work out how to implement it. The next 25 years are going to be spent wondering why we shot ourselves in both feet and both knees in doing something that will irreparably harm the country.

If a party wins an election, does the opposition then cheerlead them for the next 5 years supporting their government? Of course not; this mythical, mystical democracy and control that is fairly frequently re-invoked involves, debate, argument, nuance, opposition. Parliament is doing exactly what Leavers are demanding that they were not able to do under the EU. And when people look at the cold, hard facts of reality and substance, rather than the warming tingle of rhetoric (which, let's not forget, is 90+% of Brexiterism), they think - actually, it's not a good idea. When the facts change, you change your mind, or something like that.

If this was any other policy that was in a manifesto, would anyone be screaming TRAITORS, SABOTEURS if a party either opposed it, or did a reverse ferret? Of course not. MP's are doing the job you asked them to do - the fact that the Tories have been doing such an inept job should be taking ALL of the criticism, rather than people who oppose it. And if you don't like what your own MP is doing, vote for a different one; that's democracy - every few years, you get to change your mind.

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11 minutes ago, The_godfather said:

Except that's utter, utter bollock$ isn't it?

I don't really understand what people who voted Leave are complaining about? Everything that has happened since the referendum in 2016 has been in the pursuit of Brexit. You got exactly what you asked for. There was a small mandate for Leave at the time, it would arguably be smaller, if not reversed if run again now, and Parliament has spent 3+ years talking about how to achieve it. The next 10 years will be spent trying to work out how to implement it. The next 25 years are going to be spent wondering why we shot ourselves in both feet and both knees in doing something that will irreparably harm the country.

If a party wins an election, does the opposition then cheerlead them for the next 5 years supporting their government? Of course not; this mythical, mystical democracy and control that is fairly frequently re-invoked involves, debate, argument, nuance, opposition. Parliament is doing exactly what Leavers are demanding that they were not able to do under the EU. And when people look at the cold, hard facts of reality and substance, rather than the warming tingle of rhetoric (which, let's not forget, is 90+% of Brexiterism), they think - actually, it's not a good idea. When the facts change, you change your mind, or something like that.

If this was any other policy that was in a manifesto, would anyone be screaming TRAITORS, SABOTEURS if a party either opposed it, or did a reverse ferret? Of course not. MP's are doing the job you asked them to do - the fact that the Tories have been doing such an inept job should be taking ALL of the criticism, rather than people who oppose it. And if you don't like what your own MP is doing, vote for a different one; that's democracy - every few years, you get to change your mind.

Your talking party politics to a national crisis.

It was never a good idea to have the referendum..... it was irresponsible to have it without knowing the actual mechanics of the process..... and stating the decision to honour the result without knowing was reckless.

The whole of parliament is responsible for the mess we are in not the people who voted on the question asked.

Brexit should never have been a party political issue..... the Tories screwed that from the beginning, everyone else jumped on the bandwagon sadly..... they dug a whole and seem to keep on digging.

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6 hours ago, For Us All said:

The realisation that May's Brexit plan was not very good.

Which was his job. What did he achieve in those two years.

2 hours ago, geosname said:

 

The whole of parliament is responsible for the mess we are in not the people who voted on the question asked.

If people voted for some dream scenario they made up in their head, then is it parliaments fault for not delivering it? Voting has consequences. In this cases the consequence is a mess. 

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2 hours ago, Andyregs said:

Which was his job. What did he achieve in those two years.

If people voted for some dream scenario they made up in their head, then is it parliaments fault for not delivering it? Voting has consequences. In this cases the consequence is a mess. 

They didnt vote for a dream scenario they voted to leave

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Anti-Brexit campaigners are considering launching a legal bid to stop the UK government from putting its proposed withdrawal agreement before Parliament.

 

Mr Maugham was involved in the legal fight against Boris Johnson's decision to suspend parliament for five weeks - a move that was ruled unlawful by the Supreme Court.

He was also part of the team that wants the Court of Session to rule on whether it could use a special power called nobile officium to sign letter requesting an extension to the Brexit process on behalf of the government.

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