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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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12 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

That’s because there is no possible deal that will leave us better off than we are at the moment. And if anyone says “control” or “sovereignty” I shall not be responsible for my actions. 

Ohhh that's so tempting Jean...... but I will refrain. 555:woot:.... I got my smilies back

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48 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

This is sadly true.  It is supported  by the Leavers who never thought they would win so had no clue how to achieve Brexit and had blokes like David Davis leading the negotiations.  He was the guy who turned up with his mates at the first meeting with Barnier and Co without a single piece of paperwork!

I voted leave and watched the first few results come in and if I remember right they were all to stay, so I went bed next morning I could not believe the result, I didn't know all the ins and outs but, that's where I thought my "betters in parliament" were there to sort it. Little did I know, but if the whole of parliament had accepted the result and worked together for a good result for GB, we would be talking trade deals now...

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54 minutes ago, Bycarsbill said:

I would dearly have liked to see remain win the referendum.  However it didn't and if you're a democrat, I can't see how you can possibly argue that a second referendum is "democratic" when the will of the people i.e the leave vote in 2016 hasn't yet been honoured.  If there were to be another referendum, what do you suggest the question should be?  And if that still comes out as a leave vote do we go on to best of 3, best of 5 or until the non-democratic parliament gets the remain decision it really wanted in the first place?!!

The vote has been honoured, the second best deal is being sought, if the MPs cannot agree it should be passed to the people, the questions and consequences of the confirmatory referendum would be stated at the time. I would word the referendum the same as before, and put a 2/3 threshold on it but would expect only a simple majority to be agreed by the MPs, The result to be conclusive but all future referendums to be 2/3 threshold.. The referendum was purely a Tory project by Cameron.

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43 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

I voted leave and watched the first few results come in and if I remember right they were all to stay, so I went bed next morning I could not believe the result, I didn't know all the ins and outs but, that's where I thought my "betters in parliament" were there to sort it. Little did I know, but if the whole of parliament had accepted the result and worked together for a good result for GB, we would be talking trade deals now...

So you voted for something you didn’t really know was possible or not, and blame others for not producing a pie from the sky. This is why we are where we are. We negotiated a deal before any of the recent Shenanigans went on. Before any votes, any court cases and any prorogueing. It was disliked by those in both sides. You can’t get upset that some sort of vague but seemingly great deal was not achieved. 

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4 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

The vote has been honoured, the second best deal is being sought, if the MPs cannot agree it should be passed to the people, the questions and consequences of the confirmatory referendum would be stated at the time. I would word the referendum the same as before, and put a 2/3 threshold on it but would expect only a simple majority to be agreed by the MPs, The result to be conclusive but all future referendums to be 2/3 threshold.. The referendum was purely a Tory project by Cameron.

You can keep bashing that old banjo mate but it has no strings.

Both major parties vowed to honour the result, the result was to leave pure and simple, cack decision but it was made.

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4 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

So you voted for something you didn’t really know was possible or not, and blame others for not producing a pie from the sky. This is why we are where we are. We negotiated a deal before any of the recent Shenanigans went on. Before any votes, any court cases and any prorogueing. It was disliked by those in both sides. You can’t get upset that some sort of vague but seemingly great deal was not achieved. 

To be fair mate the people answered a simple question, far to simple in my opinion.... the bit between the referendum and leaving was, as it should be, down to the people in the know..... who apparently didn't and don't know.

They invoked article 50 without knowing the consequences..... if you are not prepared to leave without a deal why would you do that? I don't think anyone "in the know" knew what to do or knew the consequences of the mechanics of leaving.

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44 minutes ago, geosname said:

You can keep bashing that old banjo mate but it has no strings.

Both major parties vowed to honour the result, the result was to leave pure and simple, cack decision but it was made.

Not simple at all, quite complicated, and uncertain, that is why there is a revoke option.

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37 minutes ago, Andyregs said:

So you voted for something you didn’t really know was possible or not, and blame others for not producing a pie from the sky. This is why we are where we are. We negotiated a deal before any of the recent Shenanigans went on. Before any votes, any court cases and any prorogueing. It was disliked by those in both sides. You can’t get upset that some sort of vague but seemingly great deal was not achieved. 

no, I was asked a question and I replied to it, and its still my opinion that we should leave... apart from voting I had no other part in it, that i left to the peoples representatives to get the best deal for us. If they had done that instead of looking for self/party interests the country would not be divided, and will be for years, and domestic policies ie nhs, schools, care, would have been the priority instead of brexit...

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2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

This is sadly true.  It is supported  by the Leavers who never thought they would win so had no clue how to achieve Brexit and had blokes like David Davis leading the negotiations.  He was the guy who turned up with his mates at the first meeting with Barnier and Co without a single piece of paperwork!

You've obviously been reading the EU's version of things and not what really happened.

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13 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

no, I was asked a question and I replied to it, and its still my opinion that we should leave... apart from voting I had no other part in it, that i left to the peoples representatives to get the best deal for us. If they had done that instead of looking for self/party interests the country would not be divided, and will be for years, and domestic policies ie nhs, schools, care, would have been the priority instead of brexit...

But you can’t be upset if the result isn’t what you wanted if you didn’t have any idea what you were voting for. I voted remain at the time for exactly this reason. It would be madness to make such a huge decision based on ignorance when the country was not in a poor situation. And they did so what you wanted. A deal was agreed, and people weren’t happy with it.

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46 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Not simple at all, quite complicated, and uncertain, that is why there is a revoke option.

It was simple mate.... the question was simple... the answer was simple. 

The difficulty only emerged after the result.... I don't think either side knew what to do or how to do it during the campaign.... after the result the knowledgeable didn't have a clue and still don't it seems.

Whatever the niceties of a 2nd referendum may be it will be seen by a huge number of people as a disaster..... ie..... if you can't be bothered honouring the first why bother with the second.... or third.....or?

A lot of things should have been done differently, but they weren't , a lot of things shouldn't have been done at all,  but they were. You can't change the past because of the future you've created you can only change what is to create the future you want..... winding the clock back to 2016 won't change what is because it drags it back into play, it remains a decision taken and ignored, it remains a thorn in the side.

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