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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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2 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

but are intransient on the backstop,  and this is what is stopping the uk from agreeing...

What is wrong with the backstop?  Johnson has assured us that the technology is available or will be available very soon, to enable a frictionless border in Ireland so why is the backstop an issue?  And the word you want is intransigent.

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2 hours ago, Davebrad said:

You may be right we will find out soon enough, I tend to think the eu must take a good part of the blame, one of its member states has decided to leave so they've made it as difficult as possible, yet we both buy and sell with each other.  The irish backstop is the problem, they know that the good Friday agreement is interwoven in it, and how important it is for peace in ireland    Also the decision to remove the no deal option by parliament effectively tied our negotiators hands and so gave us no bargaining stand, so the eu have cut off their nose to spite their face,

How can you blame the EU? The UK initiated Article 50 when we were obviously not ready, the UK has not sent any further proposals to the EU till today. Johnson knows his proposals for the Backstop are not credible. All he is bothered about is pleasing the ERG, who only want a no deal  anyway. This is just a game of bluff by the UK Government.

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1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

What is wrong with the backstop?  Johnson has assured us that the technology is available or will be available very soon, to enable a frictionless border in Ireland so why is the backstop an issue?  And the word you want is intransigent.

what is wrong with the backstop? seriously... the eu wont negotiate it, we want it modified or out of the equation  to help keep the Belfast Agreement in place and ongoing... and I got the right word just shy of the g...

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20 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

How can you blame the EU? The UK initiated Article 50 when we were obviously not ready, the UK has not sent any further proposals to the EU till today. Johnson knows his proposals for the Backstop are not credible. All he is bothered about is pleasing the ERG, who only want a no deal  anyway. This is just a game of bluff by the UK Government.

it is a game of bluff played with our hands tied, care of a remain parliament with their own agenda...

"you can call roll the dice till they call your  bluff, but you can't win, till your not afraid to lose..."

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5 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

What is wrong with the backstop?  Johnson has assured us that the technology is available or will be available very soon, to enable a frictionless border in Ireland so why is the backstop an issue?  And the word you want is intransigent.

We must have the ability to leave the customs union.

The original backstop deal kept us in the customs union without the ability to leave by our own accord.

As you well know.

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8 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

What is wrong with the backstop?  Johnson has assured us that the technology is available or will be available very soon, to enable a frictionless border in Ireland so why is the backstop an issue?  And the word you want is intransigent.

That's a question for the EU 

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7 hours ago, tommytunstall said:

How can you blame the EU? The UK initiated Article 50 when we were obviously not ready, the UK has not sent any further proposals to the EU till today. Johnson knows his proposals for the Backstop are not credible. All he is bothered about is pleasing the ERG, who only want a no deal  anyway. This is just a game of bluff by the UK Government.

From memory the EU would not negotiate until article 50 was enacted. Other proposals were mooted but refused. He's not playing to the ERG he has a much bigger target audience.

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

We can leave as soon as we have the solution in place, the onus is on us to provide that solution.  Boris says the technology is available...

So, if your man is telling the truth, there is no problem with the backstop is there?

Slight problem..... there are 2 sides to a boarder.... both sides have to agree how the boarder operates..... unless it's a hard boarder in which case each side decides it's own boarder policy.

The EU does not want a hard boarder, the UK  does not want a hard boarder. It's possible any solution offered would be rejected if it cuts off the money stream from the UK to the EU, which is part of the problem, if it cuts off NI from the UK or if it contravenes the GF agreement.

It makes me wonder if the GF agreement would have been an agreement if we were not in the EU when it was agreed.

The onus is therefore on both parties to find a solution if they want to make it workable.

I wonder how quickly an agrèment could be reached if both sides said brexit is suspended and all monies from the UK to the EU will cease until a solution is found...... it won't happen because the UK  could sit back for another 3 years and simply reject any proposals offered.

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

This is ridiculous now.  The backstop contains details of exactly what must be achieved with regards to the border to come out of the customs union.  Its already pre agreed and Bozzer has said its doable so what's the problem?

Unless of course nobody actually believes borris and it's not doable?

It's not something the EU need to agree on because they already had agreed to the objectives we need to implement.

This is just another twist and lie by no deal merchants to blame the EU for our own problems but they have been doing that via the right wing media for years and years.

 

First paragraph........ the backstop is part of a proposed agreement between 2 parties which hasn't been agreed.. the EU have stated what they want to leave with any sort of deal, the UK does not have to agree to leave.

2nd.... don't know if its doable or not

3rd..... it's what they proposed for a deal to be agreed, it's what they agreed between themselves and was presented to us in the negotiations.... we rejected it 3 times partly because of the backstop.... and the conditions it imposed.... it's not just about the hard boarder but it is the main sticking point.

4th..... the biggest problem the UK has is parliament.... they rejected the deal 3 times..... when offered the opportunity to vote there own proposals through they didnt/couldn't.... some of the left want to leave some want to stay..... some of the right want to leave some want to stay..... the only thing holding the whole bloody mess together is party politics...... all smoke and mirrors in anticipation of an election and how to win it.

All sides.... all parties..... all politicians.

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There is technology already in place re VAT,TAX and CURRENCY.I think this new arrangement will be favourable for all parties except for Corbyn’s Commies,who won’t agree to anything,only for fear of losing face ,not because it makes any sense and of course the Pain in The Arse Parties.

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On 29/09/2019 at 13:44, Andyregs said:

The only party to be crystal clear on their stance for brexit recently has been the Lib Dem’s. 

He problem is people voted for pie in the sky, or with no idea at all, and it’s left politicians on both sides torn between a rock and a hard place.

Interestingly,Swinson's husband is a director of a company called Transparency International,who apparently received £3.5m from the EU last year? 

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