Brexit again...

[Davebrad]

18 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Parliament is sovereign through a representative democracy, it is now having to deal with an ill-planned and ill-managed referendum, having been stopped from doing so. The only solution is to put the decision back to the people in a referendum once some clarity can be given.

and if its still leave all the remainers say ok we've lost twice we will accept the result...and if the leavers loose they will say we want another vote they had one before...

[Fosse69]

6 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

but will it? or just set the precedent, that if you don't agree with another vote just keep demonstrating and calling for a second vote, or third... as it is now you can say one vote that's it, but go for a another vote and it will open another can of worms...that will never end.

It was ill-planned, countries that use referendums usually have 2, the first is this worth looking into? The 2nd Referendum explains what it would entail so that an informed decision can be made. 

[Davebrad]

2 minutes ago, VantaaVale said:

But that is not Fosse's point. The issue that a lot have with the 2016 referendum is that many based their opinions on lies. At best it could be argued that those campaigning were guessing. Now we have had 3 years to examine what the reality would be.

Of course, some will never change their minds no matter what facts are placed before them. But let's at least get some facts in front of people first and give them a chance of making a reasoned decision. And by this I don't just mean convert leavers to remainers.

the people voted the way they did because that's what they wanted, some will have changed their minds both ways ie its too much trouble or just get it done we've had enough...

[Fosse69]

7 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

and if its still leave all the remainers say ok we've lost twice we will accept the result...and if the leavers loose they will say we want another vote they had one before...

I would hope that the situation would be explained that it was final for say 10 years, and perhaps a 60% threshold  put on the result to give a more emphatic result.

[Fosse69]

3 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

the people voted the way they did because that's what they wanted, some will have changed their minds both ways ie its too much trouble or just get it done we've had enough...

But what if it is obvious that the country and the people will be much worse off, after all when we joined we didn't vote for 2 years after joining.

[Davebrad]

4 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

It was ill-planned, countries that use referendums usually have 2, the first is this worth looking into? The 2nd Referendum explains what it would entail so that an informed decision can be made. 

and more people voted in this case because they were told we will listen to what you say...so they thought we can make a difference if we vote. Or we could go like Ireland and keep voting till the desired result is gained...

[Fosse69]

3 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

and more people voted in this case because they were told we will listen to what you say...so they thought we can make a difference if we vote. Or we could go like Ireland and keep voting till the desired result is gained...

If planned properly problems don't happen. PPPPPP

[Davebrad]

7 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

But what if it is obvious that the country and the people will be much worse off, after all when we joined we didn't vote for 2 years after joining.

i'm not being argumentative, but what if we aren't worse off, nobody knows, the figs on the bus are said to be lies, what if the things being said about leaving are lies .If the eu had said ok if you want to leave that's fine we will help as much as we can after all you've been a good member, bought our goods we've bought yours, why should we cut off our nose lets still be friends and close. But the talks didn't go that way, I don't know why, they should have, we're all grown ups...

[Davebrad]

14 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

If planned properly problems don't happen. PPPPPP

oh yea, whats the colour of the sky on your planet, and save me some magic dust will you...

ps

    i'm off now, got to tune the steam radio the Mighty Whites are on...

[Fosse69]

3 minutes ago, Davebrad said:

i'm not being argumentative, but what if we aren't worse off, nobody knows, the figs on the bus are said to be lies, what if the things being said about leaving are lies .If the eu had said ok if you want to leave that's fine we will help as much as we can after all you've been a good member, bought our goods we've bought yours, why should we cut off our nose lets still be friends and close. But the talks didn't go that way, I don't know why, they should have, we're all grown ups...

Basic, non-members cant be better off than members especially when they live next door.

[Davebrad]

1 hour ago, Fosse69 said:

Basic, non-members cant be better off than members especially when they live next door.

Half time... they could be, if the members are stifled by club rules...it must be hard keeping 27 countries in tune.

[Regal Beagle]

3 hours ago, VantaaVale said:

But that is not Fosse's point. The issue that a lot have with the 2016 referendum is that many based their opinions on lies. At best it could be argued that those campaigning were guessing. Now we have had 3 years to examine what the reality would be.

Of course, some will never change their minds no matter what facts are placed before them. But let's at least get some facts in front of people first and give them a chance of making a reasoned decision. And by this I don't just mean convert leavers to remainers.

We've had 3 years of remainer lies since 2016.

There's absolutely no way on this earth remainers will accept a second referendum going against them.

 

There's absolutely no way they should be allowed to scrap the first one if they "win" a second referendum either.

 

 

[Regal Beagle]

3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

It was ill-planned, countries that use referendums usually have 2, the first is this worth looking into? The 2nd Referendum explains what it would entail so that an informed decision can be made. 

So why are the lib dems campaigning to scrap brexit without a second vote and labour are promising to scuttle brexit with their magical deal that they will vote against anyway?

This is a remainer lie Fosse. They don't care about due process or democracy. They care about remaining at whatever cost.

3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

I would hope that the situation would be explained that it was final for say 10 years, and perhaps a 60% threshold  put on the result to give a more emphatic result.

A 60% threshold to overturn the brexit vote you mean?

[Fosse69]

10 minutes ago, Regal Beagle said:

So why are the lib dems campaigning to scrap brexit without a second vote and labour are promising to scuttle brexit with their magical deal that they will vote against anyway?

This is a remainer lie Fosse. They don't care about due process or democracy. They care about remaining at whatever cost.

A 60% threshold to overturn the brexit vote you mean?

A confirmation referendum confirms what the people want, it can go either way when then know what is at stake. What the threshold will be I do not know, but 6o% is a more convincing result., 66% is better.

[Jacko51]

3 hours ago, Davebrad said:

but what if we aren't worse off, nobody knows,

That is exactly the point - nobody bloody knows so why do it???