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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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32 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

 

As has been said many times, however, not all leave voters were thick racists but all thick racists were leave voters!!

 

Any proof at all? I anecdotally know that this is not true.

What about the labour party? 60% remain apparently and is a party investigates for their terrible racism problems.

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9 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

So traditionally eurosceptic that in 1975 we voted to enter the EU by a massive margin.  In fact only 20% of the eligible population to vote actually voted to stay out..  but yeh, traditionally we are euro sceptic. 

Did we join Schengen?

Did we adopt the Euro?

Including the charter of Fundemntal rights of the EU and the Area of freedom, security and justice, the UK has the most opt outs of EU legislation out of all EU members with 4. source

https://ec.europa.eu/commfrontoffice/publicopinion/index.cfm/Archive/index

40 year "eurobarometer" published by the EU....

-EU citizens polled about whether they "feel European"...UK scored the lowest with 33%.

-UK also scored joint lowest on whether they felt like "EU citizens" (With Greece by the way)

-Also the lowest in 2011 survey when asked whether EU citizens were seeing the benefits of membership (35%)

-Scored in the lowest 5 in the aftermath of the financial crisis when asked whether this was a sign that the EU needs to work more closely together

-In 2013, the free movement principles being described as the most important success of the EU was least likely to be mentioned in....You guessed it....The UK (and Malta)

-The UK and Sweden have had majorities against a common EU foreign policy since 2010. Joined by other nordic countries in 2012. Every other nation had majorities in favour.

-Only Ireland scored lower in favourability towards a common security and defence policy. (Ireland 50%, UK 54%). It's also cited how interesting the difference in results for this question is between the 3 main EU contributors to defence/security budget...France 77%, Germany 82% (EU Average was 73%).

 

So yes. Traditionally we are one of the most eurosceptic populations within the EU. Fact.

And for TheSage - This euroscepticism was alive and well, well before the referendum was announced so if you could stop trotting out that line, that would be great.

 

Let me know if you need any more sources by the way, there's absolutely loads but I went with the actual EU again as it felt about the best.

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9 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

The EU wants to unite Europe under a single control by holding elections in every members country to install MEPs who can vote on every single part of that "control".  Its a bit like saying football league clubs are controlled by the EFL even though they all vote on its rules...

NAZI GERMANY wanted to exert control by killing everyone who disagreed.

Yeh, the similarities are obvious arent they...

Ffs.

 

You are happy to compare a tory brexit to nazi germany, do you think that the tory government is exerting control by killing everyone who disagress with them?

 

Your head has gone big time. Take the tin foil off and read some proper news that isn't just your facebook timeline. I don't believe you know what right wing is, I don't believe you know what fascism is, I don't believe you know much about nazi germany judging by your recent posts.

 

 

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16 hours ago, geosname said:

I agree that the majority of the voters chose to join the EEC.... so rightly we did. 

I think as a nation we have probably been sceptical of Europe for many years but not necessarily of the EU.... that's where my definition of being eurosceptic and lbs differ...

 

That was, and still is my understanding Geo.

 

Current EU membership is for clear and enduring reasons and include:

  • For France and Germany EU co-operation heals the scars of war;
  • Belgium gains diplomatic economies of scale; and
  • Poland, Hungary joined to thwap against Russian hegemony;

However, and if I remember rightly, back in 1973 Britain joined the EEC hesitantly, without enthusiasm and in a moment of transient economic anxiety.

 

So for me pre 1973 there was no such thing as Euroscepticism - traditional or otherwise.

 

As I read it Euroscepticism emerged consequence of the Conservative Party in particular,  and a nation in general never wanting to be a member of the club in the first place i.e. was motivated only by a narrow economic prospect of accessing and benefits from European free trade.

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7 minutes ago, Aussie Rules said:

That was, and still is my understanding Geo.

 

Current EU membership is for clear and enduring reasons and include:

  • For France and Germany EU co-operation heals the scars of war;
  • Belgium gains diplomatic economies of scale; and
  • Poland, Hungary joined to thwap against Russian hegemony;

However, and if I remember rightly, back in 1973 Britain joined the EEC hesitantly, without enthusiasm and in a moment of transient economic anxiety.

 

So for me pre 1973 there was no such thing as Euroscepticism - traditional or otherwise.

 

As I read it Euroscepticism emerged consequence of the Conservative Party in particular,  and a nation in general never wanting to be a member of the club in the first place i.e. was motivated only by a narrow economic prospect of accessing and benefits from European free trade.

Agreed.

Thatcher switched from advocating for membership to almost campaigning against it. Worried that it was starting to errode our sovereignty.

That is another stat I've seen but I haven't got the link at the moment - British people are more concerned about sovereignty than the rest of the EU member states.

 

We're just politically different. The EU wants to go further in a direction that we have never and will never be comfortable with in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, Aussie Rules said:

That was, and still is my understanding Geo.

 

Current EU membership is for clear and enduring reasons and include:

  • For France and Germany EU co-operation heals the scars of war;
  • Belgium gains diplomatic economies of scale; and
  • Poland, Hungary joined to thwap against Russian hegemony;

However, and if I remember rightly, back in 1973 Britain joined the EEC hesitantly, without enthusiasm and in a moment of transient economic anxiety.

 

So for me pre 1973 there was no such thing as Euroscepticism - traditional or otherwise.

 

As I read it Euroscepticism emerged consequence of the Conservative Party in particular,  and a nation in general never wanting to be a member of the club in the first place i.e. was motivated only by a narrow economic prospect of accessing and benefits from European free trade.

Anti- Europe feeling in this country has been encouraged by the tabloid press in particular with their stupid headlines. It has been encouraged by people like Boris Johnson writing made up stuff about the EU in his newspaper columns.  

This suggestion that it has been at the top of the political agenda for years is also incorrect. If you look at the 2010 Conservative manifesto, which is 118 pages long, it is page 113 before the EU is mention. 

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11 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Anti- Europe feeling in this country has been encouraged by the tabloid press in particular with their stupid headlines. It has been encouraged by people like Boris Johnson writing made up stuff about the EU in his newspaper columns.  

This suggestion that it has been at the top of the political agenda for years is also incorrect. If you look at the 2010 Conservative manifesto, which is 118 pages long, it is page 113 before the EU is mention. 

I didn't suggest it was at the top of any political agenda Jean. Although there have been battles within the political parties 're the EU. 

My comments 're eurosceptic were more along the lines of countries within the continent rather than the collective political ensemble.

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20 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

But that is my point - millions died protecting arbitary lines on a map.  It's madness when you think about it. 

Thus why the EU has a system of allowing their citizens to mingle and trade freely without physical borders. Nothing is ever perfect though, wars in the Middle East have produced millions of refugees, of which a relative few travelled to Europe, disturbing the equilibrium. 

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1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

Anti- Europe feeling in this country has been encouraged by the tabloid press in particular with their stupid headlines. It has been encouraged by people like Boris Johnson writing made up stuff about the EU in his newspaper columns.  

This suggestion that it has been at the top of the political agenda for years is also incorrect. If you look at the 2010 Conservative manifesto, which is 118 pages long, it is page 113 before the EU is mention. 

I read yesterday that at the last election in a survey of peoples concerns the EU was not in the top 10,  I  cant remember the source though as I was just flipping though on a tablet.

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4 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Anti- Europe feeling in this country has been encouraged by the tabloid press in particular with their stupid headlines. It has been encouraged by people like Boris Johnson writing made up stuff about the EU in his newspaper columns.  

This suggestion that it has been at the top of the political agenda for years is also incorrect. If you look at the 2010 Conservative manifesto, which is 118 pages long, it is page 113 before the EU is mention. 

You are right Jean - I stand corrected. It was clumsy of me to generalise the Conservative Party. My apologies.

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3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Thus why the EU has a system of allowing their citizens to mingle and trade freely without physical borders. Nothing is ever perfect though, wars in the Middle East have produced millions of refugees, of which a relative few travelled to Europe, disturbing the equilibrium. 

It's not free mate, a price has to be paid via membership.

Are boarders designed to keep people out or keep people in?

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