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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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43 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Bankers of course, not the High St ones but the gambler types. Election rules don't affect them, money flows all the year round. No wonder Corbyn frightens them after 30/40 years of freedom.

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How much debate/scrutiny on Brexit has there been lately? Couple of months Tory leader contest, 2 days  after the hand-over Summer Hols, come back a few days off for 5 more weeks. I am told there is a crisis!!. Biggest crisis since WW2!! Why any holidays, or conferences. Now they are trying to frighten us with Yellowhammer, only the base issue the real one is too frightening.. No news on food, I think the ration books with pre-allocated supermarkets wont go down very well, nearest Aldi or Lidl dependent on Post Code. Cant expect luxury goods in time of crisis 

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13 hours ago, geosname said:

 

This is the dangerous bit...... the judiciary deciding why the executive makes a lawful decision... any decision.... opens the door to legal challenges beging brought against any and every decision any executive makes.

I'm not saying the decision to prorogue was the correct decision.

The crux of it is "Why was the decision made"  Legal and normal to have a few days break between parliamentary sessions, but if that can be stretched to 5 weeks, why not 5 months?  For what reason? To prevent scrutiny of govt business, or of the PM ? Prevent HP  cancelling the 3 week  conference break? Something sinister?

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3 hours ago, Aussie Rules said:

I read it differently RB i.e. it is the behaviour of Boris Johnson unilaterally telling both the Parliament and people what he wants re Brexit. Further, whatever its shape currently I cannot see how it can be interpreted the government has the support of the people.

 

    

The problem began from when May took over, no attempt was made to reach a consensus on what Brexit should be, she realised she would need a big majority to push her own version past the hard liners, she lost her  majority and made the hard liners more powerful. We now have a hard line cabinet, but Farage still looms over the scene, the idea of Farage MPs frightens everyone but the quest for power creates strange bedfellows.

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32 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

The crux of it is "Why was the decision made"  Legal and normal to have a few days break between parliamentary sessions, but if that can be stretched to 5 weeks, why not 5 months?  For what reason? To prevent scrutiny of govt business, or of the PM ? Prevent HP  cancelling the 3 week  conference break? Something sinister?

There is only supposition and accusation, difficult to see any actual evidence.

That used to be called a kangaroo court.

Has parliament been suspended for long periods before?

Was there a legal challenge when parliament wasn't suspended as is the norm?

All the question marks in your post suggest the motive is far from clear..... yet the curt decided the motive and judged accordingly?.... is that judgement of fact or assumption/presumption ?

How long will it be before legal challenges become the norm..... from any side.... because they don't like what's going on.

Will the next social bill be challenged because the motives may be dubious? 

I don't know what the motive was..... I can guess.... should that guess be allowed as evidence because I could make the facts and the circumstances fit?

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5 minutes ago, geosname said:

There is only supposition and accusation, difficult to see any actual evidence.

That used to be called a kangaroo court.

Has parliament been suspended for long periods before?

Was there a legal challenge when parliament wasn't suspended as is the norm?

All the question marks in your post suggest the motive is far from clear..... yet the curt decided the motive and judged accordingly?.... is that judgement of fact or assumption/presumption ?

How long will it be before legal challenges become the norm..... from any side.... because they don't like what's going on.

Will the next social bill be challenged because the motives may be dubious? 

I don't know what the motive was..... I can guess.... should that guess be allowed as evidence because I could make the facts and the circumstances fit?

Evidence would be emails, corres, text,  Scots had new info for their decision, Supreme Court may have more, definitely more wigs. There have been 2 or 3 longer periods since the war, reasoned at the time, not contested. A very early one was, the King lost his head. It is not a question of policies being legally  challenged, that being political, but a parliamentary process/procedure being used against parliament. .May considered similar tactics but not cricket in her mind, preferred Boycott?

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2 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Evidence would be emails, corres, text,  Scots had new info for their decision, Supreme Court may have more, definitely more wigs. There have been 2 or 3 longer periods since the war, reasoned at the time, not contested. A very early one was, the King lost his head. It is not a question of policies being legally  challenged, that being political, but a parliamentary process/procedure being used against parliament. .May considered similar tactics but not cricket in her mind, preferred Boycott?

Comment in todays Guardian

BREAKING Lord Carloway says @BorisJohnson's remarks in Cabinet show he really wanted to #prorogue Westminster to promote his Brexit strategy, not for party conferences or a Queen's speech - that was why it was illegal in his view #courtofsession

EESApQwWkAEVL3f.jpg
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The three Scottish appeal judges who ruled Boris Johnson had unlawfully prorogued parliament have bluntly accused the prime minister of misleading voters and the Queen on his true reasons for suspending parliament.

They agree unanimously it was to prevent proper scrutiny of his Brexit strategy – and for no other reason – in their official rulings issued by the Scottish courts late on Thursday afternoon.

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12 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

No Deal ruled out and put beyond the reach of Johnson's duplicitous machinations, and then a general election in which Labour will pledge to negotiate a deal with the oft repeated red lines and take it back to the people with 2 options; leave with a deal or remain. Admittedly, Labour's position on what we will campaign for when it comes to that is currently up in the air but it seems to be going they way of either neutral (and allowing each MP to campaign for whichever side they see fit) or remain. I was at my local CLP meeting on Tuesday and there was some heated debate as to whether we should campaign for remain; I personally favour the neutral option.

So in essence..... negotiate a deal that does not take us out of the EU..... then offer the public a choice of not leaving or remaining.... sounds like a plan.

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9 hours ago, geosname said:

There is only supposition and accusation, difficult to see any actual evidence.

That used to be called a kangaroo court.

Has parliament been suspended for long periods before?

Was there a legal challenge when parliament wasn't suspended as is the norm?

All the question marks in your post suggest the motive is far from clear..... yet the curt decided the motive and judged accordingly?.... is that judgement of fact or assumption/presumption ?

How long will it be before legal challenges become the norm..... from any side.... because they don't like what's going on.

Will the next social bill be challenged because the motives may be dubious? 

I don't know what the motive was..... I can guess.... should that guess be allowed as evidence because I could make the facts and the circumstances fit?

The last 'long period of suspension' in the UK was at the end of WWII. Although I'm not sure why.

If my memory still serves me well Geo, Australia is similar to the UK when it comes to the convention of suspending Parliament, but when it does happen such suspensions are for short periods - 1 to 2 weeks.

A recent suspension 'Downunder was, in my opinion, driven by political expediency to stifle debate on tax cuts seen as unfavourable to the lowest income earners. It may have been the wrong way to resolve the tax debate - which was confirmed and passed when Parliament returned - but it was a normal, though rarely used convention.

The High Court of Australia was established in 1901 by Section 71 of the our Constitution and functions to interpret and apply Federal and State issues of significance plus challenges to our Constitution.

The operative word 'significance' means just that. The High Court takes a dim view of all or anyone from the body politic referring issues simply because they may be 'dubious'.

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