Brexit again...

[Fosse69]

6 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Yes,but he followed that sentence up with "he was not attempting  to put a second referendum"on the agenda" as he wants to "win this one".

Most of the media didn't report that either.

Perhaps he wanted a general election?

Otherwise you are acting defeatist, not like being  in an election to be an MP, a few times before

[Fosse69]

20 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

And the huge irony of the deal being blocked is that a considerable number of the Brexiteers, who wanted to leave, voted against it. Rees Mogg’s constituency voted Remain and he has persistently gone against their wishes - yet those whose constituents voted leave are castigated as traitors whilst Mogg is rewarded with a seat in the Cabinet. 

I say again, Johnson promised us the world three days after Brexit and now looks like he is heading for No Deal. 48.11% of those who voted want to Remain. 51.89% voted to leave. Unless we are absolutely certain that everyone of those 51.89% voted on the basis of No Deal rather than the deal that they were told would be easy then I cannot see how anyone can say that there is majority support for No Deal. 

If we leave without a deal it will be those responsible who have betrayed us. For god’s sake sort out a deal and bring an end to this completely ludicrous situation. 

There would be plenty of smiles if the Lib mob turf him out at the next election.

[Regal Beagle]

28 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Why should the Remainer MPs want to stop Remain?  I don’t understand that?

Maybe because they really really really "respect" the result and really really really support brexit with a deal?

 

[Regal Beagle]

2 hours ago, Paul6754 said:

RB, post the link plz.

It's all in this thread in the last few months and it is already determined so I'm not needlessly going to go round in that particular circle any more.

If you post evidence that the EU budget is wrong, I'll reconsider my position. As it stands, the best source of information we have demonstrates that it was a true and reasonable statement. That's really all there is to say on it.

[whotobeakiller]

I will say one thing...Parliament being shut down is absolutely ridiculous...but then again where is the integrity from the remain camps...if they are sure the country does not want a No deal then surely an election would have been fit to reflect that??

The excuse they used to say Johnson would just change the date is baloney...an election win would have seen a possible new Labour/SNP coalition government reverse any subsequent possible no deal if the remain camp had won.

 

The bottom line is they KNOW the leave voters would vote Labour MP's out all over the country

[Fosse69]

 

 

49 minutes ago, whotobeakiller said:

I will say one thing...Parliament being shut down is absolutely ridiculous...but then again where is the integrity from the remain camps...if they are sure the country does not want a No deal then surely an election would have been fit to reflect that??

The excuse they used to say Johnson would just change the date is baloney...an election win would have seen a possible new Labour/SNP coalition government reverse any subsequent possible no deal if the remain camp had won.

 

The bottom line is they KNOW the leave voters would vote Labour MP's out all over the country

 

 

A general picks the time of the attack, if the defence is losing soldiers and untrustworthy ,  hold off a while block the Queen`s speech and mount up , especially as 60% of Labour voters voted Remain.

[Jacko51]

2 hours ago, For Us All said:

Yes,but he followed that sentence up with "he was not attempting  to put a second referendum"on the agenda" as he wants to "win this one".

Most of the media didn't report that either.

Perhaps he wanted a general election?

I never mentioned a second referendum. You did.

[For Us All]

1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

I never mentioned a second referendum. You did.

I didn't,that was a Farage quote,who didn't want one either.

[Jacko51]

19 minutes ago, For Us All said:

I didn't,that was a Farage quote,who didn't want one either.

It wasn’t relevant to what I posted so I’ve no idea why you mentioned it. 

[Regal Beagle]

3 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

A general picks the time of the attack, if the defence is losing soldiers and untrustworthy ,  hold off a while block the Queen`s speech and mount up , especially as 60% of Labour voters voted Remain.

Good luck.

Exactly how to expect the tories to bleed brexit votes to Labour in the next few weeks/months?

Labour should be more concerned about whether they'll come second rather than winning a general election. They need Corbyn gone and most of the shadow cabinet too. They need to start representing the working class again rather than the London middle class.

36 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

It wasn’t relevant to what I posted so I’ve no idea why you mentioned it. 

Posting selectively edited quotes of Farage is not relevant to remainers disdain for democracy and their disgraceful failure to accept the result of the referendum in fairness.

[geosname]

4 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

 

 

 

 

A general picks the time of the attack, if the defence is losing soldiers and untrustworthy ,  hold off a while block the Queen`s speech and mount up , especially as 60% of Labour voters voted Remain.

If a general loses 40% of his foot soldiers he has a problem.... if another general is offering his remaining 60% exactly what they want while he himself dithers about what he wants to give them he won't be a general for very long.

[geosname]

5 hours ago, whotobeakiller said:

I will say one thing...Parliament being shut down is absolutely ridiculous...but then again where is the integrity from the remain camps...if they are sure the country does not want a No deal then surely an election would have been fit to reflect that??

The excuse they used to say Johnson would just change the date is baloney...an election win would have seen a possible new Labour/SNP coalition government reverse any subsequent possible no deal if the remain camp had won.

 

The bottom line is they KNOW the leave voters would vote Labour MP's out all over the country

The cost of a Labour/SNP  coalition would be expensive..... an independence referendum at least, if SNP won that real problems begin, they want to stay in the EU but Labour can't guaruentee that outcome.

A labour/lib dems coalition would be difficult.... lib dems are likely to pick up remain votes but Labour can't give them that until after another referendum and may not be able to offer it then.

Lib dem/SNP could work at a price.

Similar problems would be encountered with the smaller parties.

Labour are playing a dangerous game.... sitting between two Waring factions hoping they don't get wiped out or sustain any losses in the cross fire.

Their stance seems to be...... you can trust us to negotiate a better deal even though the EU won't negotiate but we will campaign against it anyway..? Seems I heard very similar recently which was criticised heavily.

If Labour win I think they will find themselves in a very similar situation as the Tories are now..... no workable majority.... bearing in mind some Labour mps are brexiteers..... and of course mps vote for what they think is best for the country not party.

[geosname]

6 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

And the huge irony of the deal being blocked is that a considerable number of the Brexiteers, who wanted to leave, voted against it. Rees Mogg’s constituency voted Remain and he has persistently gone against their wishes - yet those whose constituents voted leave are castigated as traitors whilst Mogg is rewarded with a seat in the Cabinet. 

I say again, Johnson promised us the world three days after Brexit and now looks like he is heading for No Deal. 48.11% of those who voted want to Remain. 51.89% voted to leave. Unless we are absolutely certain that everyone of those 51.89% voted on the basis of No Deal rather than the deal that they were told would be easy then I cannot see how anyone can say that there is majority support for No Deal. 

If we leave without a deal it will be those responsible who have betrayed us. For god’s sake sort out a deal and bring an end to this completely ludicrous situation. 

I suspect Mogg was given the job he now has, in part, because he knows more about parliamentary procedures etc than the other 600+ combined.

You can't negotiate any deal if you remove the option of saying no.... that's capitulation not a deal.... as damaging as it could be it has to be a creditable option until a deal is agreed or both sides withdraw from the negotiation.

Parliament, in its wisdom and for the good of the country, voted the only deal on offer unacceptable, 3 times, they voted variations unacceptable too. That left one option, the one a large majority voted into law for the good of the country.

They then decide to remove that option, because it wasn't in the best interests of the country, and leave themselves and the country in limbo.... when there are no options left you are dead.

One question..... if all the opposition can unite, which they apparently have, to stop no deal why didn't they choose to fight to  revoke article 50, call an election, then enact article 50 again if appropriate to the winner?...... deal and no deal are dead in the water, opposition parties get what they have been screaming for, the damage to the economy is put on hold, negotiations would have to restart if enacted, although I doubt the EUs position would change etc etc..... just a thought.

[Regal Beagle]

They haven't stopped no deal to be fair, but have made a <ovf censored> deal slightly more likely.

[Regal Beagle]

ALL the experts say that brexit is bad.