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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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44 minutes ago, Howjy04 said:

I didn’t see the small print on the voting slip that said ‘If you vote Leave,tough’.

 

I didn't see the small print that said we were going to leave without a deal even though all the leave campaigners promised us the best deal in history.

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1 hour ago, Jacko51 said:

This is the whole problem with the referendum in the first place.  As I have said all along, the referendum was a crazy idea on an issue that none of us knew enough about.  Who mentioned the Irish border during the campaign?  Who understood the consequences of it if they did?  Who understood WTO rules and their effects on farmers?  Who knew that the majority of immigrants to this country come from outside the EU so leaving would make no difference to them?  Who knew all sorts of other stuff which has only become evident since the referendum?

We voted to leave so that's what we have got to do.  The referendum advised the government to leave the EU and, because of what Cameron and Co had said, effectively manadated them to do so.  But Parliament has to do it in a way that will damage this country as little as possible.  The problem is that the extreme leavers in Parliament like the ERG have prevented the then Prime Minister from achieving a deal.  They were helped by the Labour Party and other opposition groups.  The ex PM never opened herself to cross party involvement in the deal discussions.

The consequences of all of this is that MPs are so set in their opinions that few are prepared to consider alternatives to their fixed and immovable views.  And we now have a PM who has always wanted a soft Brexit and promised as much in the campaign but who is now being driven by extremists into quite the opposite outcome.

And we also have leavers like Farage, Tice and Co who said we could have something like a Norway deal saying they don't want that but we should just jump instead. 

In years to come historians will look back on this period in our history and wonder what infection spread across this country and turned us all into idiots.

The EU's third withdrawal agreement was defeated in parliament by 344 votes to 286.

34 Tories voted against.

234 Labour MP's voted against.

34 SNP MP's voted against.

42 others voted against.

The ERG didn't really play a great part in that vote,compared to a Labour party that is falsely claiming it wants to leave with a deal.

The numbers obviously say they don't want a deal at all,well certainly not a Tory deal anyway?

 

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31 minutes ago, For Us All said:

It's crackers.

These MP's,if you can call them that,have voted against both a deal and now a no-deal.

Now you couldn't make that up?

Sadly no matter how crazy a scenario anyone could make up the people in the know can make it happen..... it may take 3+ years but they will get around to it..... eventually...

The really sad part is that probably over 50% of them don't know what they have done..... more probably dont know why they have done it.... and most of them couldn't give a rats ass.

As long as they get their 30 second interview to bolster their ego and election chances.

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3 hours ago, ginge said:

16 million voted to remain in the EU. Nobody voted to leave without a deal because during the referendum that option wasn't mentioned!

17.4 million voted to LEAVE. not with a deal , just LEAVE. It was quite straight straightforward.

Just as an aside, when we have a general election and its a hung parliament, why don't the losers insist on coming back to the people for a second vote? Because its not the done thing, they lost, they get over it. They allow the party with the most seats the opportunity to assemble a parliament via coalition. NOT coalesce a rebellion and drag parliament out for 3 years, to the detriment of everything else, and then decide, when offered a new general election after calling for one for years, yes please but not this month, we'll drag it out some more and really piss off the electorate, (excuse my franglais).

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6 minutes ago, Tadpaulbaggins said:

17.4 million voted to LEAVE. not with a deal , just LEAVE. It was quite straight straightforward.

Just as an aside, when we have a general election and its a hung parliament, why don't the losers insist on coming back to the people for a second vote? Because its not the done thing, they lost, they get over it. They allow the party with the most seats the opportunity to assemble a parliament via coalition. NOT coalesce a rebellion and drag parliament out for 3 years, to the detriment of everything else, and then decide, when offered a new general election after calling for one for years, yes please but not this month, we'll drag it out some more and really piss off the electorate, (excuse my franglais).

If it was so straight forward we would have left by now. 

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2 hours ago, For Us All said:

The EU's third withdrawal agreement was defeated in parliament by 344 votes to 286.

34 Tories voted against.

234 Labour MP's voted against.

34 SNP MP's voted against.

42 others voted against.

The ERG didn't really play a great part in that vote,compared to a Labour party that is falsely claiming it wants to leave with a deal.

The numbers obviously say they don't want a deal at all,well certainly not a Tory deal anyway?

 

How many of those 34 Tories had the whip removed for voting against government policy?

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2 hours ago, For Us All said:

The EU's third withdrawal agreement was defeated in parliament by 344 votes to 286.

34 Tories voted against.

234 Labour MP's voted against.

34 SNP MP's voted against.

42 others voted against.

The ERG didn't really play a great part in that vote,compared to a Labour party that is falsely claiming it wants to leave with a deal.

The numbers obviously say they don't want a deal at all,well certainly not a Tory deal anyway?

 

You are correct the ERG did not play a part in the vote, but they have made up for it since, they are now pulling all the strings, and are certainly not interested in negotiating a deal.

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17 minutes ago, Tadpaulbaggins said:

Because its not the done thing, they lost, they get over it. They allow the party with the most seats the opportunity to assemble a parliament via coalition. NOT coalesce a rebellion and drag parliament out for 3 years, to the detriment of everything else, and then decide, when offered a new general election after calling for one for years, yes please but not this month, we'll drag it out some more and really piss off the electorate, (excuse my franglais).

That's not strictly true.  In the Feb '74 election Labour had a 4 seat lead over the Tories but not an overall majority.  PM Heath did not resign but tried to form a coaltion with the Liberals to form a government.  Thorpe rejected the offer and Heath resigned about a week after the election.  Heath did not simply allow the party with most seats to form a government before trying to form a coalition himself.

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1 hour ago, Tadpaulbaggins said:

17.4 million voted to LEAVE. not with a deal , just LEAVE. It was quite straight straightforward.

Just as an aside, when we have a general election and its a hung parliament, why don't the losers insist on coming back to the people for a second vote? Because its not the done thing, they lost, they get over it. They allow the party with the most seats the opportunity to assemble a parliament via coalition. NOT coalesce a rebellion and drag parliament out for 3 years, to the detriment of everything else, and then decide, when offered a new general election after calling for one for years, yes please but not this month, we'll drag it out some more and really piss off the electorate, (excuse my franglais).

Not possible with a 5 year fixed term parliament, it was Cameron`s idea for the 2/3 vote to preserve him in office, it has come back to bite Johnson. It has put the control of the election date out of the PM`s hands. Nothing to stop a Rebel Government seeking a vote of confidence if they want.

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3 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

That's not strictly true.  In the Feb '74 election Labour had a 4 seat lead over the Tories but not an overall majority.  PM Heath did not resign but tried to form a coaltion with the Liberals to form a government.  Thorpe rejected the offer and Heath resigned about a week after the election.  Heath did not simply allow the party with most seats to form a government before trying to form a coalition himself.

It is lately 😉

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