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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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21 minutes ago, Tadpaulbaggins said:

and, in a classic piece of political back door chicanery, this amendment was passed with barely a whimper with no vote on a technicality.

The speaker had called division, and members had left the chamber to vote only to start milling around again in the chamber. It transpires that in one of the lobbies there were no tellers to oversee the ballot, and none were available, and as such the result defaults to the proposer and the amendment is added to the bill.

Now who should have provided the tellers? the Government. 

Who has just got Theresa Mays deal back for a possible 4th vote, with additional Labour support at a time when the whole country is clamouring against a No Deal, that not very clever Boris Johnson. This must be done within 5 days  and says

" The Prime Minister must within the period of five days, not including any Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday, beginning with the day on which this Act is passed publish a copy of a draft Bill to implement the Withdrawal Agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union."

Now unless I'm mistaken ( and sadly am lately), it would appear someone has blindsided Jeremy and bought the deal back to the table, with his own side asking for it, and I'm the only one to notice. I sadly think not. 

 

OK, what would happen if May`s Deal (WA +PA) was voted for and signed off with the EU, what would Farage do at the subsequent election in November  when his only objective is No Deal.

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1 minute ago, Fosse69 said:

OK, what would happen if May`s Deal (WA +PA) was voted for and signed off with the EU, what would Farage do at the subsequent election in November  when his only objective is No Deal.

We leave and remain lose..... then what?...... we all just accept it?

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2 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Which it always should have been but I don't recall either side mentioning it once during the referendum.

As an aside, if May's deal was to be put before parliament again, especially now that it looks like No Deal will be off the table, would it stand a chance of passing? I'm presuming Labour would be whipped to vote against but would the right of the tories accept it rather than go in to an election and possibly losing to Labour who will offer a second referendum?

I would think not, they would gamble, Farage is in the equation as well, plus lots of ifs and buts.

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Election in November ? Ok I will follow your lead,

As I said, I am no fan of the man, but you can see him riding into the sunset of Parliament as a quasi Tory, on the coat tails of a Brexit leaving Party, to rub Corbyn up the wrong way. I'm sure the electorate around the country will still vote for the Brexit Party and then slowly see them disseminate into the Tory party, as others are crossing over to the Lib Dems et al, at the moment

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4 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

You might be right about Farages motley crewe. However, it is assumed that these people will desimate the labour vote, maybe you are underestimating the general disdain for Johnson.  Maybe, a large portion of the Tory vote will shift to Farage simply because they dont like Boris.  I guess we will only know if we go to the Polls but in the Euros the combined tally of the remain parties won the day...

I think alot of people are still arguing under the assumption that 3 and 1/2 years on, the appetite to leave the EU remains a majority but I dont think Leave would win another vote, especially given the increase in young people registering in the last 3 days...

I think the LIB dems will do more damage to the Torys than anyone is daring to think.  

But we will find out next month.

The lib dems will stand on a remain platform and damage any party that doesn't...... Labour and Tories...... unless they get a deal from labour

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7 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

You might be right about Farages motley crewe. However, it is assumed that these people will desimate the labour vote, maybe you are underestimating the general disdain for Johnson.  Maybe, a large portion of the Tory vote will shift to Farage simply because they dont like Boris.  I guess we will only know if we go to the Polls but in the Euros the combined tally of the remain parties won the day...

I think alot of people are still arguing under the assumption that 3 and 1/2 years on, the appetite to leave the EU remains a majority but I dont think Leave would win another vote, especially given the increase in young people registering in the last 3 days...

I think the LIB dems will do more damage to the Torys than anyone is daring to think.  

But we will find out next month.

As was cited this morning on the wonderful televisual device, Tom Brake sat next to Anna Soubry who was begging him not to put a Lib Dem candidate against her in Broxtowe. They sort of came to an agreement, that he wouldn't. Now I'm sure the Tories and Farage will be doing their own deals and not standing against each other , thereby taking votes off each other, maximising seats. So I don't think its all as cut and dried as you think it is.

It will make the battle for control of Westeros look like Janet and John.

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47 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Said every closset right winger ever.

So it's right-wing now is it to support the winning result of a referendum?

A lot of people would say it was more extreme to say you were going to honour the result and then do the opposite and try and overturn it.

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59 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

No but it's very right wing to support a BJ led Tory party which perusing his agenda is doing.

Most people want to do a deal with the EU and leave accordingly.  That is following the result of the referendum.

Do you  understand yet that being against no deal is not the same as not wanting to leave the EU.  It's no difficult but you seem unable to grasp that in any way at all.

I don't disagree.

However if you take no deal away, rightly or wrongly, you are left with the only deal available which isn't wanted either.

We can't leave with no deal and we can't leave with a deal, because the deal was rejected..... so we can't leave.... so in theory we remain.

If the may deal had been agreed, which is the only deal available, no deal would have been redundant..... which suggests it's got bugger all to do with no deal.... but a lot to do with no leave.

It's a cross between catch 22 and 600+ flew over the cuckoo's nest 

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7 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

I want to leave in the best way for the country and that is categorically not by No Deal.  If it was, Johnson and Co would have done it as soon as he became PM.

No one believes people who say this. You may as well come clean and say that you want the worst deal possible so we can vote to remain.

7 hours ago, For Us All said:

🐓🐓🐓

3 little chlorinated Corbyns.

6 hours ago, ginge said:

Boris didn't even turn up to his own general election debate. He'll lose his seat in the next GE. And there's one coming soon.

Sure, let's have a GE then?

 

2 hours ago, For Us All said:

So it's right-wing now is it to support the winning result of a referendum?

A lot of people would say it was more extreme to say you were going to honour the result and then do the opposite and try and overturn it.

These people dont know what right wing is. Boris is not far right. He is actually quite centrist actually. They conflate his boisterous style with right wing for some reason.

1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

No but it's very right wing to support a BJ led Tory party which perusing his agenda is doing.

Most people want to do a deal with the EU and leave accordingly.  That is following the result of the referendum.

Do you  understand yet that being against no deal is not the same as not wanting to leave the EU.  It's no difficult but you seem unable to grasp that in any way at all.

We cant grasp it because it doesn't exist. It is a lie.

And you dont know what right wing is so probably stop using it as a label? 

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Listening to Five Live yesterday and the reporter was interviewing people as the walked past in a northern town. He said that he'd included every single person that he spoke to.The views were unanimously, overwhelmingly leave and leave now, deal or no deal. I honestly don't think that MPs have a grasp on what large numbers of people in this country feel; if Labour go into the election offering a second referendum and the Lib Dems go for revocation, I'll be putting money on a large Tory majority, especially if the Brexit party form some form of pact.

People are bored to tears of all of this. The rights and wrongs of it have been lost in a mist of frustration.

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3 hours ago, gavcradd said:

Listening to Five Live yesterday and the reporter was interviewing people as the walked past in a northern town. He said that he'd included every single person that he spoke to.The views were unanimously, overwhelmingly leave and leave now, deal or no deal. I honestly don't think that MPs have a grasp on what large numbers of people in this country feel; if Labour go into the election offering a second referendum and the Lib Dems go for revocation, I'll be putting money on a large Tory majority, especially if the Brexit party form some form of pact.

People are bored to tears of all of this. The rights and wrongs of it have been lost in a mist of frustration.

Agreed.  Which highlights the stupidity of rejecting the only deal which was on the table.

Personally I can see no point in a general election prior to Brexit because it will decide nothing.  If Johnson stands on a no deal platform it will prove him to be one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet after all he's said in the past.  If he promises a deal and doesn't get it, it will show he's incompetent.  If I want to vote for Brexit with a deal how do I do it?  If I want to vote for an anti-Stalinist party where the cult of leader plays no part and members don't disappear because the disagree with the leader, who do I vote for?

Surely there has to be an option on the ballot paper which says "None of these stupid buggers thank you very much."

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46 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Agreed.  Which highlights the stupidity of rejecting the only deal which was on the table.

Personally I can see no point in a general election prior to Brexit because it will decide nothing.  If Johnson stands on a no deal platform it will prove him to be one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet after all he's said in the past.  If he promises a deal and doesn't get it, it will show he's incompetent.  If I want to vote for Brexit with a deal how do I do it?  If I want to vote for an anti-Stalinist party where the cult of leader plays no part and members don't disappear because the disagree with the leader, who do I vote for?

Surely there has to be an option on the ballot paper which says "None of these stupid buggers thank you very much."

There is usually space to write it in, printed or joined up writing is an option

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