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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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4 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

But the political agreement allows us to negotiate  trade deals in a leisurely fashion over 2 years, accepting   the deal a year ago we would be half way through by now. Ireland is the problem.

But we didn't, and it won't change so..... if it's acceptable now why wasn't it acceptable then...... try explaining that to the voters

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8 minutes ago, geosname said:

One flaw in your argument...... there is no parliamentary majority for the only deal on the table..... it was tried 3 times and failed.... it even failed with suggested amendments...... there is no public or parliamentary majority for remain either.

It would be a very simplistic to blame one person..... either May or Boris.....  600+ Mps are the culprits.

The blame lies with allowing a referendum in the first place. You can't blame all MPs...not all voted to trigger article 50 or for the referendum. And the public have to take some share too. 

What now then? Another referendum? 

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4 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

 Ireland is the problem.

Which it always should have been but I don't recall either side mentioning it once during the referendum.

As an aside, if May's deal was to be put before parliament again, especially now that it looks like No Deal will be off the table, would it stand a chance of passing? I'm presuming Labour would be whipped to vote against but would the right of the tories accept it rather than go in to an election and possibly losing to Labour who will offer a second referendum?

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2 minutes ago, ginge said:

The blame lies with allowing a referendum in the first place. You can't blame all MPs...not all voted to trigger article 50 or for the referendum. And the public have to take some share too. 

What now then? Another referendum? 

What would be the point?

Whatever the decision it won't close the decide..... if leave win we go back to ground zero...... if remain win we go back to ground zero

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3 minutes ago, geosname said:

But we didn't, and it won't change so..... if it's acceptable now why wasn't it acceptable then...... try explaining that to the voters

Johnson`s message to the voters  I will deliver Brexit end of      Money for the NHS

Reaity                 Brexit would only bite from 1/11/19 and go on and on

                           The EU has never stopped us spending money on the NHS

 

No other messages will matter

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6 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Johnson`s message to the voters  I will deliver Brexit end of      Money for the NHS

Reaity                 Brexit would only bite from 1/11/19 and go on and on

                           The EU has never stopped us spending money on the NHS

 

No other messages will matter

That's the worst campaign message I've heard mate

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12 minutes ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

Which it always should have been but I don't recall either side mentioning it once during the referendum.

As an aside, if May's deal was to be put before parliament again, especially now that it looks like No Deal will be off the table, would it stand a chance of passing? I'm presuming Labour would be whipped to vote against but would the right of the tories accept it rather than go in to an election and possibly losing to Labour who will offer a second referendum?

It shouldn't stand a snowball's mate.

It seems to me that remainers think that if they won a second referendum it would all be over and leavers would just accept the result...... I think that's some distance from reality.

It could be worded to split the leave vote..... that won't go down well either.

It could be set for a percentage win 65%? 75%?..... if it doesn't reach the target do we revert to the first referendum result.?..... or to pre result?..... that's tricky....... and what if by some chance leave won?

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39 minutes ago, ginge said:

The blame lies with allowing a referendum in the first place. You can't blame all MPs...not all voted to trigger article 50 or for the referendum. And the public have to take some share too. 

What now then? Another referendum? 

I think the problem wasn't the referendum, I think the question had to be asked sooner or later, bearing in mind some big Labour names want to leave....... the problem as I see it was remain were complacent, they thought it was a done deal..... neither campaign felled any trees.

I blame all MPs because from day one it was a political survival issue driven partly by denial..... most voted for article 50 and voting for and against Mays deal was liquid.

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2 minutes ago, ginge said:

So what now then? 

More political shenanigans and chicanery from MPs on all sides I would guess, a few more spins of the brexit roulette wheel, an election campaign full of false promises, more lies and deceit....... whatever the people in the know eventually decide I suppose.

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1 hour ago, Nofinikea said:

Why does BJ want an election, have you stopped to ask yourself this?  He cant win, he wont get a majority although he might lead the biggest party.  He is them left looking to deal with people to form government accept nobody with enough backing would touch him which then leaves the door open for labour to form a coalition with either the SNP or Lib Dems and form a government.

Having sat and watched all the debates for the past two days, I notice you have missed one big point in your above statement, whether you like it or not, and I am not a supporter of the gentleman in any way shape or form.

Nigel Farage and his Brexit Party will decimate the Labour strongholds that have voted against and coerced to stop any sort of deal , especially our own Ruth Smeeth and Gareth Snell.

There in a nutshell will be the Tory party's coalition government.

Why last night do you think amendment 6 appeared on the Withdrawal Bill (no 6), signed predominantly as it was by Labour members from areas that voted leave, that surprise surprise, now back Theresa Mays failed, dead as a duck 580+ page withdrawal bill signed off by the EC, that they all voted against time and time and time again.

Because they now their time is up if the Prime Minister has a general election. Their only hope now is that it gets a reading and a vote and miraculously it gets voted for, having failed so narrowly last time.

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and, in a classic piece of political back door chicanery, this amendment was passed with barely a whimper with no vote on a technicality.

The speaker had called division, and members had left the chamber to vote only to start milling around again in the chamber. It transpires that in one of the lobbies there were no tellers to oversee the ballot, and none were available, and as such the result defaults to the proposer and the amendment is added to the bill.

Now who should have provided the tellers? the Government. 

Who has just got Theresa Mays deal back for a possible 4th vote, with additional Labour support at a time when the whole country is clamouring against a No Deal, that not very clever Boris Johnson. This must be done within 5 days  and says

" The Prime Minister must within the period of five days, not including any Saturday, Sunday or Bank Holiday, beginning with the day on which this Act is passed publish a copy of a draft Bill to implement the Withdrawal Agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union."

Now unless I'm mistaken ( and sadly am lately), it would appear someone has blindsided Jeremy and bought the deal back to the table, with his own side asking for it, and I'm the only one to notice. I sadly think not. 

 

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2 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Ergo you are supporting the most right wing Tory government since Thatcher.

And again, who is trying to prevent it?  I watched both the Benn Bill debate and the Election debates live, I am not basing my opinion on whichever media bias you are using, I am basing it on watching it happen.

The SNP and Lib Dems openly admit they want to stop it but neither wield the power to do so.  Almost everybody else who spoke in favour of the bill categorically stated that they have no desire to stop Brexit, just the possibility of leaving without a deal.  Now if your man cant get a deal that is acceptable that's his problem to sort.  Perhaps he should have been more supportive of Mrs May?

Those against the election categorically stated that they welcomed the election but only after the bill has been sorted.

That's not difficult to understand though is it, but if course you are only interested din being puerile.

Why does BJ want an election, have you stopped to ask yourself this?  He cant win, he wont get a majority although he might lead the biggest party.  He is them left looking to deal with people to form government accept nobody with enough backing would touch him which then leaves the door open for labour to form a coalition with either the SNP or Lib Dems and form a government.  The reality is, an election any time soon will see the Tories lose, even of they are the biggest party.  BJ has no intention of gaining a mandate, he simply wants to tie up Parliment so he can force through a no deal against the democratic will of the house   again, stopping no deal is not stopping brexit.  BJ thinks he is a modern day Churchill, forcibly pushing on in his own self belief that he is some sort of saviour.  He is merely trying to cement his place in history at everyone elses expense and folk like you are all over it like tramp on chips.

Right wing doesn't mean anything these days apart from not being a Labour fan.

Labour also voted three times against May's deal,so to say they want to leave with a deal is a porkie

I also watched the live debate for many hours and If you can't see who's trying to prevent Brexit from happening apart from the SNP and the Lib.Dems then I suggest you look closer.

By the way,I am currently watching Andrew Neil running rings around Jo Swinson over her reluctance to support a general election.

If you want to support MP's who will not honour the result of the referendum,carry on,that's up to you.

I'll do the opposite and support anybody who wants to deliver Brexit.

(JRM is currently live on BBC Parliament).

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