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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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1 minute ago, Fosse69 said:

You say you are serious, have you been away?  The DUP does not want to have the same trade agreement as Ireland i.e. to stay in the Common Market. 

Sorry I am only asking because I didn't know or realise.

My apologies.

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3 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

No problem, sorry if I mis took you for a regular on this thread.

Thats no problem my old Granny always used to say "If you dont know ask  "

As we get to the sharp end I might embarrass myself with more queries !

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Doesn't Switzerland belong to Schengen and has some sort of freedom of movement? It was part of the deal they signed to join the EU's free trade area. It can do its own trade deals but I think from memory it has accepted freedom of movement in part in order to access the market. We could have that but we'd have to have freedom of movement. We could do trade deals then if we wished but they pay money to the EU for the privilege of access to their 600 million customers and have no seat at the top table of the EU as we do. I don't think No Dealers would accept that.

It's the kind of compromise that might be attractive for those who want to compromise but No Dealers would say it gives away too much to the EU and remainers would say we already have a better deal by staying in because we do have a seat at the top table and help shape decisions and policies.

I may have got some of that awry because the Swiss-EU relationship is complicated, very. I think there are over 200 treaties between them.

 

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6 minutes ago, Mario said:

Thats no problem my old Granny always used to say "If you dont know ask  "

As we get to the sharp end I might embarrass myself with more queries !

You will get plenty of replies, mine tend to be short and simple, others will give fuller versions

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3 minutes ago, TheSage said:

Doesn't Switzerland belong to Schengen and has some sort of freedom of movement? It was part of the deal they signed to join the EU's free trade area. It can do its own trade deals but I think from memory it has accepted freedom of movement in part in order to access the market. We could have that but we'd have to have freedom of movement. We could do trade deals then if we wished but they pay money to the EU for the privilege of access to their 600 million customers and have no seat at the top table of the EU as we do. I don't think No Dealers would accept that.

It's the kind of compromise that might be attractive for those who want to compromise but No Dealers would say it gives away too much to the EU and remainers would say we already have a better deal by staying in because we do have a seat at the top table and help shape decisions and policies.

I may have got some of that awry because the Swiss-EU relationship is complicated, very. I think there are over 200 treaties between them.

 

The Swiss have been neutral for a long time, a secretive financial centre, like plenty of simple referenda, plenty of rich immigrants and cuckoo clocks. Not been at war with neighbours for a very long time.

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They certainly attract the rich. Audrey Hepburn and Roger Moore had homes there. Good efficient railway system too and chocolate!

And they are not silly enough to cut off their noses to spite their face (as we seem to be doing) as they pay money to the EU to access their huge market.

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1 hour ago, Mario said:

With reference to the hard border with Ireland could someone explain to me how at least 4 EU countries have a soft border with Switzerland yet there is a song and dance about our border with Ireland and what the difference is ? serious question.

The EU insist on a hard boarder, even though apparently alternatives have been offered/suggested.

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1 hour ago, TheSage said:

Doesn't Switzerland belong to Schengen and has some sort of freedom of movement? It was part of the deal they signed to join the EU's free trade area. It can do its own trade deals but I think from memory it has accepted freedom of movement in part in order to access the market. We could have that but we'd have to have freedom of movement. We could do trade deals then if we wished but they pay money to the EU for the privilege of access to their 600 million customers and have no seat at the top table of the EU as we do. I don't think No Dealers would accept that.

It's the kind of compromise that might be attractive for those who want to compromise but No Dealers would say it gives away too much to the EU and remainers would say we already have a better deal by staying in because we do have a seat at the top table and help shape decisions and policies.

I may have got some of that awry because the Swiss-EU relationship is complicated, very. I think there are over 200 treaties between them.

 

Here we go, a little bit of honesty shining through.

 

You surely agree that brexiters (not "no dealers" as you are trying to call them) will not and can not accept free movement of people in any capacity?

You surely must agree, as an expert on why and what brexiteers were voting for, that they were voting to be outside of the free movement of people?

 

If you want to remain, just say it. Don't pretend we can have brexit and still be in the EU though, because we can't.

Stop trying to label people you disagree with as extremists. There is nothing extreme about wanting a clean brexit.

 

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2 hours ago, Mario said:

With reference to the hard border with Ireland could someone explain to me how at least 4 EU countries have a soft border with Switzerland yet there is a song and dance about our border with Ireland and what the difference is ? serious question.

The EU have admitted to fabricating the backstop issue in order to create leverage with which to pressure us into conceding.

It's on camera, i posted it in this thread a week or two ago.

Today the Leo Varadkar, the Irish taioseach has even said today that as far as Ireland a concerned, an "invisible" smart border is not what they want. They want Northern Ireland (and therefore the UK) to be in the same customs union.

If the UK is in the same customs union as the EU then it severely restricts our ability to strike trade deals with other countries such as USA. It would also muddy the sovereignty water.

 

The EU cannot afford for brexit to be a success because of the rising euroscepticism across the union. If we go it may only take one other significant net contributor to leave and the EU collapses. That is why they will try anything but giving the UK a fair deal.

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I was canvassing for Labour on Saturday and spoke with a man who said he couldn't vote for us again. He was 72 and had always voted for us, even had a poster in his window at the 2017 election. That's been replaced by a Daily Express window sticker saying 'get us out' or something like that. Felt very sad for him really and regretted (to an extent) slagging leavers off as thick racists. Having said that, it astonishes me that people who are so at risk are prepared to accept a no-deal exit. Our constituency, being rural and relying on agriculture and manufacturing industry, is 13th most at risk in the entire country from a no-deal but he, and others, seem to be so fixated on getting out whatever the cost. Our constituency also only has a tory majority of about 600 so he must be aware that him withholding his vote could genuinely affect the result of any election, to the extent that it could hand the tories victory instead of the party he's voted for for the last 54 years. It also brought home to me what a difficult position Labour are in. For every voter like the gentleman I spoke to, there's a voter who refuses to accept anything other than a second referendum. What a sodding mess.

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