Brexit again...

[Fosse69]

35 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Neither am I but you can be damn sure had Leave lost by less than 4pts the campaign to get Britain out of the EU would still be raging full tilt demanding concessions and opt outs.

What compromise would you like if the result had been different?  

Farming rebates?

Own Currency?

Own Laws?

Immigration Control?

What?

 

 

Farage would still be raging as such a close margin was not decisive, or so he said.

[Jacko51]

2 hours ago, mr.hobblesworth said:

I think that's very sensible. Problem is, neither the #FBPEers nor the ERG would go along with it.

 

2 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

I gave it a thanks, of course it was sensible, but compromise is a dirty word. to some. 

Thanks lads.  I was beginning to think I was the only sensible one on here!!

[geosname]

8 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

May's deal was clearly the middle ground because neither side got exactly what they wanted.

Mays deal wasn't a deal, it's what the EU offered, it wasn't negotiated, it was a disaster waiting to happen...... more a capitulation or surrender than a deal.

Neither side got anything of what they wanted , leave or remain. Neither in nor out with none of the supposed benefits of either.

[geosname]

10 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Compromise is a word that has left our vocabulary.  The fact that over 48% of those who voted wanted to remain in the EU suggests that some form of compromise might be a decent plan.  And I don't mean staying in the EU, I mean leaving in the way we were promised in the referendum campaign - with a deal.

This is an interesting view of what we should be doing.

"There were more than 16 million who wanted to remain. They are our neighbours, brothers and sisters who did what they passionately believe was right. In a democracy majorities may decide but everyone is of equal value.  We who are part of this narrow majority must do everything we can to reassure the Remainers. We must reach out, we must heal, we must build bridges – because it is clear that some have feelings of dismay, and of loss, and confusion."

The article goes on to say

"I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be. There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment. EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU. 

British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI – the BDI – has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. Britain is and always will be a great European power, offering top-table opinions and giving leadership on everything from foreign policy to defence to counter-terrorism and intelligence-sharing – all the things we need to do together to make our world safer."

Anything wrong with that because it sounds sensible to me.

There were more than 17 million who wanted to leave. They are our neighbours, brothers and sisters who did what they passionately believe was right. In a democracy majorities may decide but everyone is of equal value.  We who are part of this narrow minority must do everything we can to reassure. We must reach out, we must heal, we must build bridges – because it is clear that some have feelings of dismay, and of loss, and confusion."

[geosname]

To reach a compromise you have to define what your base line is, the line you are not prepared to cross...... if you cross that line it's not compromise it's surrender/capitulation.

Probable base lines..... for both sides.

Free movement of people.

Sovereignty of UK law.

Freedom to trade with whoever we choose in the manner we choose.

Can anyone suggest a compromise that doesn't cross the baseline of the other side?

[geosname]

59 minutes ago, geosname said:

There were more than 17 million who wanted to leave. They are our neighbours, brothers and sisters who did what they passionately believe was right. In a democracy majorities may decide but everyone is of equal value.  We who are part of this narrow minority must do everything we can to reassure the leavers. We must reach out, we must heal, we must build bridges – because it is clear that some have feelings of dismay, and of loss, and confusion."

When remain "leaders" incorporate the phrases..... "if you voted remain"....... you are/must be...... stupid, ignorant, racist, xenophobic, hateful or any of the other choice insults thrown around by the "better informed" they are already entrenched...... compromise has already been dealt a fatal blow.... its already past the point of debate and compromised resolution..... its reached the point of engaging the enemy..... advancing rapidly towards take no prisoners.

This is true of both sides, not just remainers....... for 3 years war has raged..... political and verbal..... propaganda machines have been working at full tilt.... and as with all wars it's the civillians who bear the cost and the aftermath.

Will all the political generals who hide in the protected enclave of parliament step forward and admit they were wrong?...... Will any of them take that step?........ I think there is a very slim possibility...... the moment hell freezes over.

[geosname]

7 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Looks like nobody else thinks it's sensible.  Hey ho - I do my best!

Sensible and brexit in the same room is just to much of a stretch for me Jean 

[Paul6754]

Perhaps a compromise cannot be reached with the EU but if the EU toned down their demands for a backstop a consensus could be achieved, ie, the best solution the UK and the EU could find at this moment in time, the money the UK pays into the UK is a powerful driver.

[Howjy04]

9 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

Neither am I but you can be damn sure had Leave lost by less than 4pts the campaign to get Britain out of the EU would still be raging full tilt demanding concessions and opt outs.

What compromise would you like if the result had been different?  

Farming rebates?

Own Currency?

Own Laws?

Immigration Control?

What?

 

 

If Remain had have won they wouldn’t have given  a rat’s arse in compromise.I voted to remain but accepted the result.God forbid there is another referendum,I would vote to Leave.Remainers are in denial of the result.We have been shat on from a great height by the Hotel California EU.There was one winner in a 2 horse race,there has been a steward’s enquiry for 3 years.Pathetic.

[Howjy04]

A person who supports Port Vale and Newcastle United,sensible?Sorry,not having that.

[Regal Beagle]

8 hours ago, Nofinikea said:

That nails it.  You are definitely on the wind up.

Anyone who is outraged by the prorogation either doesn't know anything or is faking outrage. There's nothing more to it.

Add in that the same people literally argue that the referendum result should be ignored yet they're now claiming that a legitimate, lawful and traditional PM move is anti-democratic.

If you think Parliment was going to resolve their issues in the 5 missing days then again, you either don't know what you are talking about or you are lying.

Another factor - the prorogation isn't even for the whole of october so there will still be time for Parliament to act.

If you lot are going to make wild unsubstantiated claims, at least explain your reasoning.

[Regal Beagle]

4 hours ago, geosname said:

To reach a compromise you have to define what your base line is, the line you are not prepared to cross...... if you cross that line it's not compromise it's surrender/capitulation.

Probable base lines..... for both sides.

Free movement of people.

Sovereignty of UK law.

Freedom to trade with whoever we choose in the manner we choose.

Can anyone suggest a compromise that doesn't cross the baseline of the other side?

When remainers say compromise they actually mean remain.

The actual compromise has been attempted...A clean brexit with a trade deal. That has failed so far because of the EU although it is still possible down the line.

 

If remainers are being honest they want the final outcome to be as close to remain as possible. They're already fighting an uphill struggle to justify that considering the majority of the British people don't want to remain. This is why they can't simply say "we don't agree with the result and we demand to remain because we feel so strongly about it that our opinion should supercede the will of the British people" - they have to disguise that view.

 

Just look a their flawed logic...They claim that a compromise would be that we only leave with a deal. That basically hands all the power to the EU (which is explicitly what we voted against) as it means we're either stuck in the EU (again, voted against that) or we have to accept the EU's deal which would quite clearly mean that we don't get a very good deal at all (The EU have to be seen to their states to be punishing us somewhat because they can't risk giving us a good deal that looks attractive to other eurosceptical members).

[geosname]

13 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

1945 was the last time this happened.

I have never seen anybody so blatantly skew or even make up "facts" as you have continually done on this thread.

You are worse than Comical Ali but at least he was funny.

Arguing that preventing MPs from legislating against the PM by stopping them sitting is not undemocratic is clearly a wind up. It has to be as whatever side somebody is on, however entrenched in there own rhetoric, nobody can be that blatant.

The last time a parliament sat this long was 400 years ago..... they could have cancelled the recess and/or cancelled the conference  break..... but they didn't..... was it because such an important event like stopping brexit could only be done in the 4 days they will lose?

[geosname]

3 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Where is your evidence that a rats arse would not have been given? 

Farage conceded defeat but stated that the fight continues before the result went his was back on the morning of the result so I have my evidence that Leavers would not have quietly accepted the result.  

 

That doesn't show remainers would have compromised if they had won...... it just shows leavers would have done the same as remainers if they had lost.... the ass of the rat is still valid.

[Howjy04]

7 minutes ago, Nofinikea said:

Where is your evidence that a rats arse would not have been given? 

Farage conceded defeat but stated that the fight continues before the result went his was back on the morning of the result so I have my evidence that Leavers would not have quietly accepted the result.  

 

Why is that evidence of compromise?