Brexit again...

[TheSage]

This democracy lark is pure fantasy and straight out of Harry Potter.

I've told you many times over that there is a stronger argument for claiming that the EU is more democratic than the UK.

We are represented at all levels, we send MPs to the EU, we have a veto, hence we don't belong to the Euro, nor are we in Schengen. We have a seat at the top table. 

I'll ask you again, what EU rules that we didn't vote for are you most looking forward to losing?

There isn't a single one! It's a fallacy that the EU forces all these rules down our throats. Utter garbage. But if the Express, Mail and Sun keep on telling you it is true then you believe it without question.

Let's look at our democracy. We have an executive that can get power on little more than 40% of the vote. Fact. We have an unelected second chamber that used to contain loads of hereditary peers. Fact. We have an unelected monarchy. Fact. We have a PM who was elected with around 0.3% of the popular vote. Fact. Why didn't he have a bi-election? His chief adviser is a man who was found to be in contempt of Parliament. Fact. The government has talked about shutting down Parliament to get it's own way. Fact. And we are being denied another vote because you know you'd lose, even though mature adults do change their minds. And a right wing press that is controlled by multi millionaires living abroad in tax havens and avoiding paying any tax. Fact. We've even had right wingers calling the Supreme Court "enemies of the people." Fact. And we've had members of the ERG calling remainers "vermin", "traitors" and peddlers of fake news and project fear because they won't accept reality.

And you tell me the EU isn't democratic. You're having a giraffe.

[Regal Beagle]

10 hours ago, TheSage said:

This democracy lark is pure fantasy and straight out of Harry Potter.

I've told you many times over that there is a stronger argument for claiming that the EU is more democratic than the UK.

We are represented at all levels, we send MPs to the EU, we have a veto, hence we don't belong to the Euro, nor are we in Schengen. We have a seat at the top table. 

I'll ask you again, what EU rules that we didn't vote for are you most looking forward to losing?

There isn't a single one! It's a fallacy that the EU forces all these rules down our throats. Utter garbage. But if the Express, Mail and Sun keep on telling you it is true then you believe it without question.

Let's look at our democracy. We have an executive that can get power on little more than 40% of the vote. Fact. We have an unelected second chamber that used to contain loads of hereditary peers. Fact. We have an unelected monarchy. Fact. We have a PM who was elected with around 0.3% of the popular vote. Fact. Why didn't he have a bi-election? His chief adviser is a man who was found to be in contempt of Parliament. Fact. The government has talked about shutting down Parliament to get it's own way. Fact. And we are being denied another vote because you know you'd lose, even though mature adults do change their minds. And a right wing press that is controlled by multi millionaires living abroad in tax havens and avoiding paying any tax. Fact. We've even had right wingers calling the Supreme Court "enemies of the people." Fact. And we've had members of the ERG calling remainers "vermin", "traitors" and peddlers of fake news and project fear because they won't accept reality.

And you tell me the EU isn't democratic. You're having a giraffe.

We have a monarchy and used to have hereditary peers? That's the best you can do?

 

How about...We have referendums on how we want to be governed but Parliament is hell bent on overturning the result because they know better.

 

Failing to accept this is sheer lunacy sage. honestly, what is the point in being in the thread any more if you are denying cold hard facts constantly?

[tommytunstall]

If anyone one had doubts about this Government, they have now been strengthened, shutting down Parliament to get a No deal through, totally undemocratic. Now we all know why Mogg and co have been quiet, this has always been the end game. Against the wishes of Parliament and the electorate. We are entering dangerous times.

[For Us All]

19 hours ago, Heatwave said:

Don't appeal to logic Jean, Brexiteers don't have any.

Logic?

I'm not sure about your logic but on my ballot paper it just said Remain or Leave.

You can't vote for something which isn't on the ballot paper?

[For Us All]

On 26/08/2019 at 20:23, tommytunstall said:

My annoyance is Barmy Boris is deliberately leading us into a no deal,  to satisfy his right wing colleagues, Mogg, Cash, Bone, etc. There is obviously the Carrot dangled about the fictional super deal withTrump,which is what it is fictional,they are deliberately shouting down any opposition just like Trump. This is not democratic because this country did not vote for a no deal, except the normal two protagonists on this forum.

We didn't vote for a deal at all.

It wasn't on the ballot paper.

The democratic result was to Leave.

What part of that don't you understand?

[Jacko51]

39 minutes ago, For Us All said:

We didn't vote for a deal at all.

It wasn't on the ballot paper.

The democratic result was to Leave.

What part of that don't you understand?

Are you telling me that every single one of the 17 million who voted to leave did so on the basis of no deal??  Are you tell me that all the Leavers who announced that a deal would be dead easy were lying through their teeth? 

[TheSage]

3 hours ago, Regal Beagle said:

We have a monarchy and used to have hereditary peers? That's the best you can do

How about...We have referendums on how we want to be governed but Parliament is hell bent on overturning the result because they know better.

How about you read everything I've written instead of cherry picking an odd phrase out of context. 

0% voted for a No deal. Those words were not on the ballot paper. There is no evidence at all, none, of anyone during the campaign, in the weeks before the vote, telling voters that they were voting for a No deal. Rabb tried to claim he did but he lied. Farage too. But he lied also. Because most sensible people have now seen through the pack of lies about how easy it would be leavers are running scared. Hence they are now claiming in desperation that we all voted for a No deal when we clearly didn't. Lies come naturally to leavers like Johnson, Rabb and Fox. 

In any case, I don't care about the semantics of what occurred over 3 years ago. Adults are allowed to change their minds aren't they? 

 

[Fosse69]

27 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Are you telling me that every single one of the 17 million who voted to leave did so on the basis of no deal??  Are you tell me that all the Leavers who announced that a deal would be dead easy were lying through their teeth? 

No, there was the woman that did not like us being in the  Eurovision song contest.

[geosname]

I don't see how anyone can lead us into a no deal brexit.

There was a huge majority vote to enact article 50 which made no deal the default if there was no agreement.

The only deal offered was rejected by parliament on 3 seperate occassions ...... even when given the opportunity members could not agree a way forward..... therefore the default position they voted for comes into effect..... they made it law.

As for the idea of a deal or not...... there were two options on the ballot paper..... leave or remain..... a decision was made and the big two parties declaired they would honour that decision...... they ratified that by voting for article 50.

The biggest hit to the economy has been caused by the inaction and infighting on all sides.

[geosname]

If you mount an argument based on what politicians didn't tell you every election in UK history should have been rerun. 

Politicians only tell you what they think you want to hear to win your vote....... the costs and consequences are left in the fog.

[Fosse69]

3 minutes ago, geosname said:

I don't see how anyone can lead us into a no deal brexit.

There was a huge majority vote to enact article 50 which made no deal the default if there was no agreement.

The only deal offered was rejected by parliament on 3 seperate occassions ...... even when given the opportunity members could not agree a way forward..... therefore the default position they voted for comes into effect..... they made it law.

As for the idea of a deal or not...... there were two options on the ballot paper..... leave or remain..... a decision was made and the big two parties declaired they would honour that decision...... they ratified that by voting for article 50.

The biggest hit to the economy has been caused by the inaction and infighting on all sides.

Voting for article 50 was necessary to open negotiations with the EU, it would have been better with a plan, however  from then onwards there is the choice to accept a negotiated deal or cancel Brexit, alternatively let things slide with no-deal and start from scratch with a weaker hand. It now appears that taking back control means not letting parliament have a say.

[geosname]

4 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Voting for article 50 was necessary to open negotiations with the EU, it would have been better with a plan, however  from then onwards there is the choice to accept a negotiated deal or cancel Brexit, alternatively let things slide with no-deal and start from scratch with a weaker hand. It now appears that taking back control means not letting parliament have a say.

They have had 3 years to have a say and have said nothing..... done nothing.... except argue and undermine. 

Both parties said they accepted the result as the will of the people..... if that were true how can they cancel brexit.

[Howjy04]

Meanwhile,back in Berlin,is that a recession on the way?You’d think the Germans would try to avert the EU House of Cards from collapsing.

[For Us All]

40 minutes ago, geosname said:

They have had 3 years to have a say and have said nothing..... done nothing.... except argue and undermine. 

Both parties said they accepted the result as the will of the people..... if that were true how can they cancel brexit.

Well,the Remainer saboteurs are still doing their utmost to overturn the referendum decision after 3 years.They are getting more desperate by the day though,with claims that we will be forced to eat chlorinated chicken if we do a trade deal with our closest ally.Don't these doom mongers realise we ingest far more chlorine in our salads and drinking water already.

Do Remainers have a pathological fear of life outside the EU?

They really do need to believe a bit more in their own country's ability to be independent.

[For Us All]

2 hours ago, Jacko51 said:

Are you telling me that every single one of the 17 million who voted to leave did so on the basis of no deal??  Are you tell me that all the Leavers who announced that a deal would be dead easy were lying through their teeth? 

If voters are not given the choice,how can they be criticised?You can only vote on the options given.

The Leavers who announced that a deal would be dead easy obviously didn't take into account the Maybot's lack of committment and the EU's intransigence?