Brexit again...

[tommytunstall]

My annoyance is Barmy Boris is deliberately leading us into a no deal,  to satisfy his right wing colleagues, Mogg, Cash, Bone, etc. There is obviously the Carrot dangled about the fictional super deal withTrump,which is what it is fictional,they are deliberately shouting down any opposition just like Trump. This is not democratic because this country did not vote for a no deal, except the normal two protagonists on this forum.

[Fosse69]

38 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

My annoyance is Barmy Boris is deliberately leading us into a no deal,  to satisfy his right wing colleagues, Mogg, Cash, Bone, etc. There is obviously the Carrot dangled about the fictional super deal withTrump ,which is what it is fictional,they are deliberately shouting down any opposition just like Trump. This is not democratic because this country did not vote for a no deal, except the normal two protagonists on this forum.

Also telling MPs they cannot vote for the good of the country  based on the facts in front of them, they are the democratic voice of the people. 

[TheSage]

Adults are allowed to re-think decisions made 3-4 years ago, if they so wish. Democracy is not written in stone in 2016. It can and does change. 0% voted for No deal and we need to have a rethink and put it back to the people. Leavers won't like it but it's the essence of democracy. That's why we have elections. So that we can change our minds if we want to.  There's nothing wrong with that. The problem is we were sold an unrealistic pipe dream. It hasn't turned out as we were promised. It isn't simple and easy. We don't hold all the cards. All that nonsense was hot air to make voters think it would be a piece of cake and we'd all be living the life of Riley by now. Well guess what? Reality has kicked in and it hasn't turned out as we were promised. In fact, it's even worse. Politicians should be explaining that to the voters.

We have a less democratic system than the EU, with an un-elected second chamber, a monarchy, and an executive than can try and run roughshod over parliament, with a bloke who was in contempt of parliament as the PMs adviser, and Johnson now threatening to shut down the legislature if he (voted for by around 0.3%, by the way) doesn't get his own way. Don't talk to me about democracy. We live in a parliamentary democracy not a fascist state where leaders can do as they wish. And I repeat my opening statement. Being able to change your mind is the very essence of democracy. Decisions are not written in concrete in perpetuity. Time doesn't stand still. We are allowed to rethink and reappraise matters. 

Johnson was a remainer up to 2016. He voted for May's deal. How come he can alter his mind but we can't? 

No one in their right mind goes ahead with something that is clearly damaging to the country. You can see that with every passing day. We've wasted around £80 billion pounds already frantically preparing to mitigate the results of something that is supposed to be good for us. Make it up. You couldn't.

 

 

[For Us All]

On 23/08/2019 at 16:29, tommytunstall said:

Of course not, these two take lying to another level. And poor old Raab doesn't know where the North is.

Talking about taking lying to another level,I give you Jeremy Corbyn,who in his latest speech in Corby blamed Margaret Thatcher and the Tories for the closure of Corby steelworks.Nothing could be further from the truth.

When British Steel first announced the closure in February 1979 Labour were still in power with Jim Callaghan as PM?

Do your homework Jezza.

[Regal Beagle]

Sage you have to stop with the untruths.

"0% votes for no deal" simply cannot be true.

"Every family will be worse off" not true.

I could say the exact opposite of those statements and have the same amount of evidence as you. 

We voted to leave. Nothing more and nothing less. The only reasonable conclusion you can draw about what leave means is to leave all of the institutions which are governed by the EU. 

The complete fabrication of hard and soft brexit is another remainer tactic. It is an insurance policy that if they cant overturn the result completely then at least we will still basically be in the eu. 

No deal was mentioned many times before the referendum, that is a categorical fact. 

So I'm not sure how you can cling on to this complete lie that no one voted for no deal. 

[Heatwave]

9 hours ago, For Us All said:

Talking about taking lying to another level,I give you Jeremy Corbyn,who in his latest speech in Corby blamed Margaret Thatcher and the Tories for the closure of Corby steelworks.Nothing could be further from the truth.

When British Steel first announced the closure in February 1979 Labour were still in power with Jim Callaghan as PM?

Do your homework Jezza.

While British Steel announced the closure in 1979 it didn't actually take place until 1980. Which meant Mrs T had ample opportunity to cancel it. And didn't. 

[tommytunstall]

1 hour ago, Regal Beagle said:

Sage you have to stop with the untruths.

"0% votes for no deal" simply cannot be true.

"Every family will be worse off" not true.

I could say the exact opposite of those statements and have the same amount of evidence as you. 

We voted to leave. Nothing more and nothing less. The only reasonable conclusion you can draw about what leave means is to leave all of the institutions which are governed by the EU. 

The complete fabrication of hard and soft brexit is another remainer tactic. It is an insurance policy that if they cant overturn the result completely then at least we will still basically be in the eu. 

No deal was mentioned many times before the referendum, that is a categorical fact. 

So I'm not sure how you can cling on to this complete lie that no one voted for no deal. 

Contains them many untruths could have been written by the Cabinet office. No deal was never on the table, there is a massive difference between Deal and no deal. Tell the families in the Motor industry and the farming industry to name a couple that they will not be any worse off. We are on the edge of an abyss, if you would only just draw your Union Jack curtains back and have a look.

[For Us All]

51 minutes ago, Heatwave said:

While British Steel announced the closure in 1979 it didn't actually take place until 1980. Which meant Mrs T had ample opportunity to cancel it. And didn't. 

Labour nationalised the steelworks in 1967 and it was a failure,hence the announcement in 1979.

The decision had already been made by British Steel.

 

[geosname]

58 minutes ago, Heatwave said:

While British Steel announced the closure in 1979 it didn't actually take place until 1980. Which meant Mrs T had ample opportunity to cancel it. And didn't. 

Both parties failed.

The disaffected disowned by the unaffected 

[Fosse69]

4 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Labour nationalised the steelworks in 1967 and it was a failure,hence the announcement in 1979.

The decision had already been made by British Steel.

 

Without nationalisation Corby  would not have lasted as long keeping people in work, Not relevant to Brexit. Corbyn will never catch up with Mophead in the fibbing charts.

 

[Jacko51]

Can any of the Brexiteers on here find me a pre-Referendum statement from Farage, Johnson, Gove et al which stated that No Deal was the likely outcome of a Leave vote.  I can't find one.  I can find plenty of statements from them saying we held all the cards, the deal would be easy and "they need us more than we need them so they will fold".

[Heatwave]

55 minutes ago, Jacko51 said:

Can any of the Brexiteers on here find me a pre-Referendum statement from Farage, Johnson, Gove et al which stated that No Deal was the likely outcome of a Leave vote.  I can't find one.  I can find plenty of statements from them saying we held all the cards, the deal would be easy and "they need us more than we need them so they will fold".

Don't appeal to logic Jean, Brexiteers don't have any.

[philpvfc]

Nobody wanted a no deal before or after the referendum, unfortunately that is what we will have to deal with should we leave the EU.

[For Us All]

4 hours ago, Fosse69 said:

Without nationalisation Corby  would not have lasted as long keeping people in work, Not relevant to Brexit. Corbyn will never catch up with Mophead in the fibbing charts.

 

Not relevant to Brexit,you'd better look up Jezza's speech in Corby on Monday 19th August.

Much better to keep focussing on pork pie's then.Jezza's goes on about protecting jobs in his speech and then lies about his party's role which caused the loss of 10,000 jobs in Corby.

Mind you if he denies lieing in parliament he'll have no problem denying this latest porkie.

[Fosse69]

36 minutes ago, For Us All said:

Not relevant to Brexit,you'd better look up Jezza's speech in Corby on Monday 19th August.

Much better to keep focussing on pork pie's then.Jezza's goes on about protecting jobs in his speech and then lies about his party's role which caused the loss of 10,000 jobs in Corby.

Mind you if he denies lieing in parliament he'll have no problem denying this latest porkie.

Corby was closed, as was Shelton Bar, with the modernisation and rationalisation of the steel industry onto  5 areas in the UK. Nothing about a speech in the media, but Corby will miss all the EU investment.