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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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http://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-014997-ASW_EN.html?redirect

We can be a small fish in a small contaminated pond, or we can be a glorious whale or something, roaming the plentiful globe. Beautiful.

There is absolutely nothing to fear outside of the eu at all. The only foreseeable reason that leaving will be bad long term is bad policy.

Good policy and we will be better long term, in my opinion.

 

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4 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

The EU agreed a withdrawal plan with the British PM, the fact that it was not acceptable to Parliament is not the fault of the EU. Now we have the Buffoon publicly blasting the EU and telling everyone what he intends to do, not the best sort of approach when supposedly trying to agree a deal with them.

Ah yes he should bend over for them, take no deal off the table and present their first offer to parliament. That will definitely work.

Hardball is the only option. And part of hardball is intending to go through with no deal.

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58 minutes ago, geosname said:

The EU wants to be more than a union...... it wants to be a super state (country).... own army etc

Some may but it would need a qualified majority vote at least. Same with an army, it makes sense to share resources as in NATO etc, but control will always remain with nations as with NATO.

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7 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

The EU agreed a withdrawal plan with the British PM, the fact that it was not acceptable to Parliament is not the fault of the EU. Now we have the Buffoon publicly blasting the EU and telling everyone what he intends to do, not the best sort of approach when supposedly trying to agree a deal with them.

If may had started that way we could possibly have had a deal

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2 minutes ago, Fosse69 said:

Some may but it would need a qualified majority vote at least. Same with an army, it makes sense to share resources as in NATO etc, but control will always remain with nations as with NATO.

"Control" ie - you nations definitely make your own decisions but we will fine you if your decision is not compatible with us.

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Just now, geosname said:

Who is going to stop it?

Me. I can't afford it. 

Why are we not in the Euro? Answer? Because we didn't want to be in it. 

Why don't we drive on the right? Because we don't want to drive on the right.

The EU cannot force us into doing something that we don't want to do.

Give me one law the EU has passed in the last 2-3 years that we haven't agreed with or voted for?

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7 minutes ago, tommytunstall said:

The EU agreed a withdrawal plan with the British PM, the fact that it was not acceptable to Parliament is not the fault of the EU. Now we have the Buffoon publicly blasting the EU and telling everyone what he intends to do, not the best sort of approach when supposedly trying to agree a deal with them.

It might have acceptable to a Remainer PM and the EU but that was about it.Even the Remainers in parliament said it was worse than what we already have.

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I don't accept the narrative that the EU is destroying our sovereignty and is any more anti-democratic than a country that has just elected a PM based on less than 0.01% the electorate, including 15 year olds. 

I know there's an argument around sovereignty and it's superficially a very seductive thesis because who doesn't want to be in control of their own destiny? It's a valid viewpoint but a flawed one for me. In 2019 surely the best way to go is by pooling our sovereignty and by collaboration and negotiation. Pure unbridled sovereignty is an abstract notion and in practice in this day and age means little. We work together with others for the benefit of everyone. That's the idea of the UK. We share sovereignty, as with the United Nations, the WTO and with NATO. But no-one questions that because it's good for us to co-operate and to pool ideas and resources. That's how the world works today. We don't operate in a bubble with nation states as if it's the 1800s.

And clearly it makes no sense whatsoever to put at risk our economy, that has been turbo charged by our EU membership and ride off into the desert on a wing and a prayer. It's complete economic lunacy. And there's no two ways about it.

You can argue that leavers want to leave for political reasons. I don't think that will matter one jot to any family in the country. But trashing our economy will. So on balance I've always felt that remaining was in our best interests and the way it's panned out has only strengthened my view. Others can disagree. That's their prerogative. But I really can't see much merit in any of the arguments to leave. I know some people feel left behind and angry but for me that's more to do with successive governments' policies and Austerity and a feeling of being powerless to halt the decline we see on our streets every day of the week, rather than the fault of the EU. But the government has to find a scapegoat and it makes a change from Corbyn.  I just feel  that voters have been sold an unrealistic pipe dream built on shifting sands. But - yes - I'm biased as we all are.

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2 minutes ago, TheSage said:

 

Me. I can't afford it. 

Why are we not in the Euro? Answer? Because we didn't want to be in it. 

Why don't we drive on the right? Because we don't want to drive on the right.

The EU cannot force us into doing something that we don't want to do.

Give me one law the EU has passed in the last 2-3 years that we haven't agreed with or voted for?

Sorry mate I don't follow your reasoning.

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2 minutes ago, For Us All said:

It might have acceptable to a Remainer PM and the EU but that was about it.Even the Remainers in parliament said it was worse than what we already have.

Which organisation in the world gives non-members a better deal than members?

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5 minutes ago, geosname said:

Sorry mate I don't follow your reasoning.

You talked about the EU wanting to become a super state with its own army. I was saying that we can opt out and veto major decisions like that, as we have done when the EU has proposed things like driving on the right and having the Euro. They might want that (debatable) but it isn't going to happen.

Just as I might want a big car and a villa on the Riviera. There are legitimate reasons why it won't happen.

Probably not a good comparison. My apologies.

 

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2 hours ago, TheSage said:

 

Me. I can't afford it. 

Why are we not in the Euro? Answer? Because we didn't want to be in it. 

Why don't we drive on the right? Because we don't want to drive on the right.

The EU cannot force us into doing something that we don't want to do.

Give me one law the EU has passed in the last 2-3 years that we haven't agreed with or voted for?

Please sage I've posted their official site which they confirm they can fine us for introducing a law that is not compatible with theirs 

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Wow. So what? Give me a few examples of when this has happened. I don't recall one, or at least anything significant. And as I said above give me a few more examples of where the EU has passed a law in the past few years that our PM has not agreed with. 

It's a superfluous and irrelevant. We've got laws on our statute book that say that you can't be drunk in charge of cattle but you do you think anyone is remotely bothered about it in practice? In theory it's the law but in practice....

 

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