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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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No matter who you vote for and whatever our prejudices, the real problem here is the split in the Tory Party and their inability to agree over Europe. They are in power. They are the government. If everyone on their side of the House got their act together then this would have been sorted months ago.

 

Everyone is divided. I agree. But it's incumbent on the government to sort it out to our benefit and stop kicking the can down the road.

To a very great extent it's been the story of May trying to keep her own party together to the exclusion of doing what's best for the country.

 

Everything else is a side issue and deflecting the blame for this mess onto the opposition benches is a convenient diversionary tactic.

 

Cameron should be hung, drawn and quartered, slowly, if we can get him back from his sunshine holidays and well paid foreign lectures. But after that I'd be quite happy to see the ERG and May next in line. They are in power. That's where the blame lies. The Tory Party is responsible for this chaotic mess.

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No matter who you vote for and whatever our prejudices, the real problem here is the split in the Tory Party and their inability to agree over Europe. They are in power. They are the government. If everyone on their side of the House got their act together then this would have been sorted months ago.

 

Everyone is divided. I agree. But it's incumbent on the government to sort it out to our benefit and stop kicking the can down the road.

To a very great extent it's been the story of May trying to keep her own party together to the exclusion of doing what's best for the country.

 

Everything else is a side issue and deflecting the blame for this mess onto the opposition benches is a convenient diversionary tactic.

 

Cameron should be hung, drawn and quartered, slowly, if we can get him back from his sunshine holidays and well paid foreign lectures. But after that I'd be quite happy to see the ERG and May next in line. They are in power. That's where the blame lies. The Tory Party is responsible for this chaotic mess.

 

I agree, Tory remainers are to blame.

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He's afraid of losing any more remainer MP's to the Independent Group but he also risks the likelihood of losing Labour Brexiteer voters.

Who's most important?

 

It really shouldn’t be about political gain at all, it should be about what’s in the country’s best interest, too many MP’s are forgetting that, especially Corbyn. For the first time this morning on BBC Breakfast I saw two MP’s, Ben Bradley and a lady who’s name escapes me actually reiterate this point and although they had different view points on Brexit moth agreed it was what was in the national interests that count, it was refreshing and we finally saw a little integrity.

 

The country rightly or wrongly voted to leave and that’s what we should now do with or without a deal, May will be breaking her word otherwise.

 

I voted to remain because it’s inregral to my business interests but the important thing is that we get the best deal or no deal by the 29th March.

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No matter who you vote for and whatever our prejudices, the real problem here is the split in the Tory Party and their inability to agree over Europe. They are in power. They are the government. If everyone on their side of the House got their act together then this would have been sorted months ago.

 

Everyone is divided. I agree. But it's incumbent on the government to sort it out to our benefit and stop kicking the can down the road.

To a very great extent it's been the story of May trying to keep her own party together to the exclusion of doing what's best for the country.

 

Everything else is a side issue and deflecting the blame for this mess onto the opposition benches is a convenient diversionary tactic.

 

Cameron should be hung, drawn and quartered, slowly, if we can get him back from his sunshine holidays and well paid foreign lectures. But after that I'd be quite happy to see the ERG and May next in line. They are in power. That's where the blame lies. The Tory Party is responsible for this chaotic mess.

 

The problem is it's being kept at a party level..... the result of the referendum was an instruction to all parties, to both houses, to whoever gained control after any general election or splitting of parties.

The problem Labour has it wants to leave but remain part of the EU ... that's worse than leaving or staying... it splits the remain vote and alienates the leave voters.

As much as some individuals would like it this is not a party issue, where one side has to disagree with the other to save face.

Every politician is looking at their futures instead of looking to the country and the will of the people.

 

Get on with it...... stop trying to blow smoke up everyone's ass.

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Jezza has now scrapped his 2017 manifesto which promised to respect the result of the EU referendum and now wants a second referendum.

You couldn't make it up.

But the result was not respected by being discussed in parliament until it unravelled, nothing to do with the opposition when they were kept in the dark. Chaos all the way from holding a referendum for internal party reasons.
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But the result was not respected by being discussed in parliament until it unravelled, nothing to do with the opposition when they were kept in the dark. Chaos all the way from holding a referendum for internal party reasons.

 

It's a screw up from start to finish mate (whenever that may be), No bugger is doing anything except waffling and trying to play the cards that suit themselves ... it's an absolute cluster (thingy) and it won't stop if/when we leave or have another referendum.

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It's a screw up from start to finish mate (whenever that may be), No bugger is doing anything except waffling and trying to play the cards that suit themselves ... it's an absolute cluster (thingy) and it won't stop if/when we leave or have another referendum.

 

Of course it won’t because there is way too much self interest from party members rather than the national interest.

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The problem is it's being kept at a party level..... the result of the referendum was an instruction to all parties, to both houses, to whoever gained control after any general election or splitting of parties.

The problem Labour has it wants to leave but remain part of the EU ... that's worse than leaving or staying... it splits the remain vote and alienates the leave voters.

As much as some individuals would like it this is not a party issue, where one side has to disagree with the other to save face.

Every politician is looking at their futures instead of looking to the country and the will of the people.

 

Get on with it...... stop trying to blow smoke up everyone's ass.

 

Firstly, it wasn't strictly an instruction. The question was conditional - should the UK remain or leave? Response, it should leave.

 

So, the next question should really be - ok, great - how? To this, there has been no satisfactory answer.

 

Secondly, that is definitively not Labour's problem. Labour's problem is that it is hopelessly politically divided in much the same way that the Tories are. This is a direct reflection of the surge of the left of the party in response to austerity. Within the left/central axes, there are both leave and remain positions, to varying degrees. The problem you describe is very specifically that the Labour leader and his close advisers want to leave the EU, but now probably recognise that it will cause (and is already causing) irreparable damage to their electoral base. There are more Labour remainer members than Leavers. There are almost certainly more Labour remainers than Leavers.

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Firstly, it wasn't strictly an instruction. The question was conditional - should the UK remain or leave? Response, it should leave.

 

So, the next question should really be - ok, great - how? To this, there has been no satisfactory answer.

 

Secondly, that is definitively not Labour's problem. Labour's problem is that it is hopelessly politically divided in much the same way that the Tories are. This is a direct reflection of the surge of the left of the party in response to austerity. Within the left/central axes, there are both leave and remain positions, to varying degrees. The problem you describe is very specifically that the Labour leader and his close advisers want to leave the EU, but now probably recognise that it will cause (and is already causing) irreparable damage to their electoral base. There are more Labour remainer members than Leavers. There are almost certainly more Labour remainers than Leavers.

 

I'm not blaming Labour I'm blaming ALL mps... I don't give a toss what colour flag they fly.

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Firstly, it wasn't strictly an instruction. The question was conditional - should the UK remain or leave? Response, it should leave.

 

So, the next question should really be - ok, great - how? To this, there has been no satisfactory answer.

 

Secondly, that is definitively not Labour's problem. Labour's problem is that it is hopelessly politically divided in much the same way that the Tories are. This is a direct reflection of the surge of the left of the party in response to austerity. Within the left/central axes, there are both leave and remain positions, to varying degrees. The problem you describe is very specifically that the Labour leader and his close advisers want to leave the EU, but now probably recognise that it will cause (and is already causing) irreparable damage to their electoral base. There are more Labour remainer members than Leavers. There are almost certainly more Labour remainers than Leavers.

 

There is no "how"

 

Leaving the EU is leaving the EU. There is no soft brexit, soft brexit = remain which is off the table.

 

The 2 considerations are, can we make a deal with the EU? (We've tried and the answer is obviously no)

and when should we leave? (We can keep frigging about attempting to make a deal but it's clear we can't)

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There is no "how"

 

Leaving the EU is leaving the EU. There is no soft brexit, soft brexit = remain which is off the table.

 

The 2 considerations are, can we make a deal with the EU? (We've tried and the answer is obviously no)

and when should we leave? (We can keep frigging about attempting to make a deal but it's clear we can't)

We have to make a deal with the EU, there is no choice except to stay as we are. All we are doing at present is trying to make a withdrawal agreement, with a two year or more period to make a deal. The EU may give us more time if we wish to have an election or referendum, but may not be keen to give us more time to dither.
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