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Brexit again...


Davebrad

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So ,let me get this right.Some of the thick Brexiters voted to leave because of the Monarchy.There’s me thinking they’ll still be living here when we LEAVE.You have become such a barrel scraper have you considered changing tack?How about Brewery for instance?Or are you quite happy with your business,forcing up house prices ,out of the reach of the less well off and vulnerable in our society?
BTW Mr Economic Genius, how a small builder / developer like me is driving up house prices I'd love to know. By building & renovating I increase supply to satisfy demand which reduces prices. All academic though as private builders, including the major companies, can not meet demand and never have. The only way we can get back to a 'normal' housing market is through large scale public housing as per the post war years. Simple supply and demand equation.

Our housing market is a disaster but is kept that way because the ethereal value of property has offset the asset decline in our industrial base. More wonderful Tory policy directly attributable to the traitorous hag Thatcher.

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I know my place in life most of the time... because I decide where it is... I don't consider myself to be any class.

I can't be working class because I don't work... I can't be middle class because I don't look up to or down on anyone... I can't be upper class because I don't look down on anyone... I just see people with attitudes , some of which I like or don't like, there status,wealth,position,worth(?) Is immaterial.

 

Spot on geo,I can only put it down to envy by some.

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BTW Mr Economic Genius, how a small builder / developer like me is driving up house prices I'd love to know. By building & renovating I increase supply to satisfy demand which reduces prices. All academic though as private builders, including the major companies, can not meet demand and never have. The only way we can get back to a 'normal' housing market is through large scale public housing as per the post war years. Simple supply and demand equation.

Our housing market is a disaster but is kept that way because the ethereal value of property has offset the asset decline in our industrial base. More wonderful Tory policy directly attributable to the traitorous hag Thatcher.

Very pleased you are not making money in your ventures.You wouldn’t want to be labled a capitalist would you,you naughty little tycoon.

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The only way to create an equal society is to bring everyone in line with the lowest common denominator....

You don't like the rich and privileged but it's comparative... to the genuinely poor the UK working class is rich... and privileged.

If you start from the position that everyone is equal you start to fail because everyone isn't equal, simply because everyone isn't the same.

If we ban inherited wealth do we set a cap?... is that equal?... or do we ban it all?

The monarch in the UK has no real power... but we swap that for a trump? Putin? Mao? The power lies with the elected and therefore the electorate... isn't that what you are advocating? Or do we just swap the figurehead for some super rich ass who can buy his way in?

I'll be very brief as I'm off to the match but my idea of an 'equal society' isn't where everyone's the same but one where we have equal opportunity to succeed - a true meritocracy, something that terrifies Tories.

There will be inherited wealth but what's the limit? No limit or, say, a maximum inheritance? How about £100m tops? No one needs that much.

Say what you like about the class system and unelected state figures but hereditary monarchy is a system of unchanging and unfair privilege. An elected or appointed head of state system is a whole new debate but how people harped on, inaccurately, about unelected EU representation then don't wish to be rid of a monarchy is laughable.

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Sorry but I fundamentally disagree, I don't believe in hereditary political privilege in any form. Whatever system is employed for an elected head of state at least they'd be the choice of the population and would serve a limited time, plus they can be removed, ie, they're accountable. Donald Trump may be a clown but he's the choice of the US electorate and will only get 8 years maximum. As for hereditary goons & despots England has a massive list of them, e.g., Henry VIII, George IV, Edward VII and next will be Charlie, a grade A useless half wit if ever there was one.

 

Two words that don't necessarily go with the position - 'political' and 'elected'.The monarch is not political in any way - the Queen has the right to be informed and to give advice under the constitution - but otherwise apolitical. Similarly there would be no compulsion to elect a president; at present political parties are happy to appoint their representatives to the House of Lords and a presidency would be no different. I don't hear anyone making big noises about electing the Lords while they can just appoint their own placemen, so why would a president be any different?

 

Moving away from the status quo would open so many cans of worms no politician has dared go there so I can't see change happening, with or without Brexit.

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I'll be very brief as I'm off to the match but my idea of an 'equal society' isn't where everyone's the same but one where we have equal opportunity to succeed - a true meritocracy, something that terrifies Tories.

There will be inherited wealth but what's the limit? No limit or, say, a maximum inheritance? How about £100m tops? No one needs that much.

Say what you like about the class system and unelected state figures but hereditary monarchy is a system of unchanging and unfair privilege. An elected or appointed head of state system is a whole new debate but how people harped on, inaccurately, about unelected EU representation then don't wish to be rid of a monarchy is laughable.

 

How can someone with nothing have the same opportunities as someone with say 50k of inherited cash or 100k of assets?

Enjoy the match.... seriously..... unfortunately I don't have the same opportunity to attend... still no smiley face

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Two words that don't necessarily go with the position - 'political' and 'elected'.The monarch is not political in any way - the Queen has the right to be informed and to give advice under the constitution - but otherwise apolitical. Similarly there would be no compulsion to elect a president; at present political parties are happy to appoint their representatives to the House of Lords and a presidency would be no different. I don't hear anyone making big noises about electing the Lords while they can just appoint their own placemen, so why would a president be any different?

 

Moving away from the status quo would open so many cans of worms no politician has dared go there so I can't see change happening, with or without Brexit.

I can't see the system changing anytime soon either, however, that doesn't mean I accept the status quo as being ok. As I said in an earlier post any system of selection for a head of state is a whole separate debate, doesn't have to be a President or even a politician. Whatever the confines of a constitutional monarchy it's inaccurate to claim it's apolitical as it supports and represents a system of position by right of birth and through that right of birth the royals have direct communication and therefore influence over politicians, something you, I and any other average subject of the crown doesn't enjoy purely because of who our parents are.

Fancy adulating people because they're born into a certain position, affording them ridiculous deferences such as 'your majesty' and 'your royal highness', it's farcical and the population of republican countries must be laughing their heads off at us and quite rightly so. I've certainly met plenty of Yanks who find it very amusing.

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I can't see the system changing anytime soon either, however, that doesn't mean I accept the status quo as being ok. As I said in an earlier post any system of selection for a head of state is a whole separate debate, doesn't have to be a President or even a politician. Whatever the confines of a constitutional monarchy it's inaccurate to claim it's apolitical as it supports and represents a system of position by right of birth and through that right of birth the royals have direct communication and therefore influence over politicians, something you, I and any other average subject of the crown doesn't enjoy purely because of who our parents are.

Fancy adulating people because they're born into a certain position, affording them ridiculous deferences such as 'your majesty' and 'your royal highness', it's farcical and the population of republican countries must be laughing their heads off at us and quite rightly so. I've certainly met plenty of Yanks who find it very amusing.

 

You quote Americans finding it amusing..... the people who gave us tricky dicky, Regan, the Bush boys and trump.....

There are toilets in the UK older than America.... but then they don't do irony...... let's all bow to Hollywood instead.... not forgetting the Kardashian sisters of course.

If the monarch had any power I may be concerned

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I'll be very brief as I'm off to the match but my idea of an 'equal society' isn't where everyone's the same but one where we have equal opportunity to succeed - a true meritocracy, something that terrifies Tories.

 

SOTT, Providing equal opportunity is the politics of the right, the policy of capitalism, it gives everyone a chance to make something of themselves. It's the political system that enabled Barack Obama to become president of the USA.

 

Equal outcome is the politics of the left and the communists, it leads to poverty, social deprivation and degradation and upheaval. There isn't a far left/communist regime in the world that has succeeded long term, ask the people of Venezuela, Cambodia, Russia etc, even the Vietnamese have adopted a free market economy.

 

There are the haves and have less people throughout the political spectrum from UK Royalty and their castles to the Kremlim members and their Dachas, sadly it's life.

 

The scary thing about Brexit is a deteriorating UK economy with less opportunity/less jobs producing less tax returns to fund an ever increasing number of bureaucrats, welfare state etc, not a savory prospect.

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SOTT, Providing equal opportunity is the politics of the right, the policy of capitalism, it gives everyone a chance to make something of themselves. It's the political system that enabled Barack Obama to become president of the USA.

 

Equal outcome is the politics of the left and the communists, it leads to poverty, social deprivation and degradation and upheaval. There isn't a far left/communist regime in the world that has succeeded long term, ask the people of Venezuela, Cambodia, Russia etc, even the Vietnamese have adopted a free market economy.

 

There are the haves and have less people throughout the political spectrum from UK Royalty and their castles to the Kremlim members and their Dachas, sadly it's life.

 

The scary thing about Brexit is a deteriorating UK economy with less opportunity/less jobs producing less tax returns to fund an ever increasing number of bureaucrats, welfare state etc, not a savory prospect.

I would argue a different view of left and right as I think a fundamental outcome of capitalism, and more so British capitalism because of the class influence, is limitation of opportunity. Land, Labour, capital; the lower down the economic scale you are the less of those resources are available to you. The politics of the left looks to level that playing field somewhat, especially through education. It could also be argued we've never seen a truly left wing state as highlighted by your references to the palatial lifestyles of the Kremlin politburo or Mao, none of which is in line with left wing philosophy. Either way, the failures you level at those systems are no different to the failures of far right capitalism and in the cases of the Soviet Union and China for all their failings life for the mass of the populations massively improved from what it was, it was that bad before.

Anyway, that debate is miles off topic and as I've said in previous posts I'm left of centre but against all politics of the extreme, left or right. I believe in a mixed economy and free private business with some level of state management / control of standards, e.g., safety laws, employment laws, environmental laws, etc. and a fair and balanced welfare state, e.g., national health care provision, state pensions, public housing, unemployment and disability benefits, etc. That doesn't mean providing an easy life for wasters, contrary to the propaganda of much of the right wing press, but it does mean not brutalising people genuinely in need of assistance in the way the new Universal Credit system does and is designed to do.

All these things are contributory factors as to why I don't want to leave the EU, though far from perfect it's a political alliance that is generally centrist and socially balanced and helps prevent lurches to either extreme of the political spectrum and it's good for trade and business allowing us to compete with the mega economies of the USA and China.

Going back to the references you made about left and right I fear Brexit may well give rise to political turmoil within the UK as many leavers are pushing for a far right free market economy and slashing of welfare & employment protections, there will be a reaction to that and we could end up back where we were in the 70's with poor industrial relations, poor business investment and poor productivity, etc., all resulting in our being generally much worse off.

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How can someone with nothing have the same opportunities as someone with say 50k of inherited cash or 100k of assets?

Enjoy the match.... seriously..... unfortunately I don't have the same opportunity to attend... still no smiley face

 

Didn't we all have the same opportunity to succeed when we entered the education system?:unsure:

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